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hawkgrrrl wrote:Quote:
At any rate, it doesn’t appear that it was very helpful in keeping JS or others alive that had received their 2nd anointing.
I would have to go back and check, but I got the notion that the second anointing was introduced after JS, under BY’s era. Further reason I consider it “wishful thinking” more than doctrine. But I’m not sure I have the dates right on that. I read that book about a year ago.
According to
Benjamin Johnson
I believe women have something equal to priesthood…motherhood and womanhood. Perhaps as we allow the Savior to be manifest in our lives the need and ability to give blessings become available to us. Women are equal to men and priesthood in every respect…maybe even better. hawkgrrrl wrote:Quote:At any rate, it doesn’t appear that it was very helpful in keeping JS or others alive that had received their 2nd anointing.
I would have to go back and check, but I got the notion that the second anointing was introduced after JS, under BY’s era. Further reason I consider it “wishful thinking” more than doctrine. But I’m not sure I have the dates right on that. I read that book about a year ago.
According to “Mysteries of Godliness”, the 2nd anointing was introduced in 1843 (pg 58), and JS and Emma received the 2nd anointing on 28 September 1843 (pg 62-63). At least 20 men and the wives of 16 of those men were given the 2nd anointing during JS’s lifetime (pg 63), including Heber C. Kimball, Hyrum Smith, John Taylor, Newel K. Whitney, and Brigham Young (pg 64).
“Mysteries of Godliness” also gives a description of the 2nd anointing similar to that which I posted earlier (pg 66-67). I would be happy to type in and post the quotes from “Mysteries of Godliness” if anyone is interested and if you think it is a more reliable source.
MisterCurie wrote:
At any rate, it doesn’t appear that it was very helpful in keeping JS or others alive that had received their 2nd anointing.
Right. The promise of being able to die when and where one chooses is really something special— Something demonstrated by Jesus and possibly John the Beloved and the three Nephites.Joseph had ritualized a spiritual fulfillment into an LDS practice, as he had baptism, confirmation, marriage, washing of feet, endowment, etc. Anytime you take a ‘heavenly’ action and rehearse (or, mimic) it on earth, it points to the thing, it represents the thing, but of course cannot actually *be* the thing, excepting the extremely rare occasions where they occur simultaneously (which does sometimes happen).
That’s what I love about the second anointing — it’s the enactment of the spiritual fulfillment of the endowment — it’s a derivative of a derivative, so to speak. And therefore, very confusing. And, I suppose, why hawkgrrrl and others consider it non-doctrinal. Basically, it’s not.
But like the other external or exoteric ordinances, it points to something very meaningful.
HiJolly
HiJolly wrote:Anytime you take a ‘heavenly’ action and rehearse (or, mimic) it on earth, it points to the thing, it represents the thing, but of course cannot actually *be* the thing, excepting the extremely rare occasions where they occur simultaneously (which does sometimes happen).
I don’t know. Mimicing a ‘heavenly’ action sounds wrong to me, like making a mockery before God. Particularly when JS and others taught that this was literally a ‘heavenly’ action. They believed their “calling and election” was made sure and that they had received an essential ordinance.
Thinker wrote:I believe women have something equal to priesthood…motherhood and womanhood. Perhaps as we allow the Savior to be manifest in our lives the need and ability to give blessings become available to us. Women are equal to men and priesthood in every respect…maybe even better.
Men have fatherhood and manhood…those two are equivalents to motherhood and womanhood.
Women are NOT maybe even better than men. That is an insult to men. The scriptures teach that ALL are alike to God, MALE AND FEMALE:
“…he inviteth them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile.” 2 Nephi 26:33
MisterCurie wrote:HiJolly wrote:Anytime you take a ‘heavenly’ action and rehearse (or, mimic) it on earth, it points to the thing, it represents the thing, but of course cannot actually *be* the thing, excepting the extremely rare occasions where they occur simultaneously (which does sometimes happen).
I don’t know. Mimicing a ‘heavenly’ action sounds wrong to me, like making a mockery before God.
Mimicry doesn’t have to be a negative thing, MC. Indeed, the dictionary lists 4 possible definitions under transitive verbs, and only one has negative connotations, def. #2. Baptism is a good example of positive mimicry, or enactment (think: symbolized action).
MisterCurie wrote:Particularly when JS and others taught that this was literally a ‘heavenly’ action. They believed their “calling and election” was made sure and that they had received an essential ordinance.
We MUST believe, for it to develop into faith. JS, others, and you and I benefit greatly when we believe in the ordinances of the Gospel, the ordinances of the temple.I believed in the efficacy of my baptism, and my faith was sufficient for me to experience a ‘rare’ initiation at that time. I wish I had had that experience with the temple endowment!
HiJolly
I’ve been reading some of the gnostic gospels today, and it’s fascinating how many of them allude to this kind of uber-secret cabal of Jesus’ closest followers. It’s like a winnowing of humanity, like russian dolls: -pagans and polytheistic types who are superstitious and don’t “get it”
-Hebrews who should get it but can’t see it right in front of them
-lay disciples who follow Jesus to benefit from his miracles and teachings; they kind of “get it” but stray easily
-the inner circle of apostles and others who are given extra knowledge such as witnessing transfiguration
-a select few whom Jesus pulls aside and says he’s going to show them the real secret stuff that others aren’t ready for
Even without the gnostic gospels, you’ve got this with John the Revelator (and presumably the 3 Nephites). Is that the “calling and election made sure”? Isn’t it still possible for them to blow it at that point? Reading the gnostic gospels makes me wonder how much of that really happened. It seems convenient to reinterpret Jesus’ sayings by saying – “yeah, I know what he told YOU guys, but then he pulled me aside and told me the real deal ‘cuz I’m special.”. It’s instant authority to your new spin!
hawkgrrrl wrote:I also have some doubts about the authenticity of the person’s account of his own 2nd anointing because there is information out there and one could reconstruct a fictional account with convincing detail. I really have a hard time believing that someone who had this ordinance would end up on post- or ex-Mormon boards. I’d be very surprised if the median age on such an ordinance were any lower than about 70.
This is what I was referring to. I wasn’t saying anything about the doctrinal accuracy of such an ordinance.hawkgrrrl wrote:I’ve been reading some of the gnostic gospels today
I’d like to read these, and I know of some of them but am not sure how to get a hold of them? What do you recommend? Are the sources on the internet sufficient or reliable?Euhemerus wrote:I’d like to read these, and I know of some of them but am not sure how to get a hold of them? What do you recommend? Are the sources on the internet sufficient or reliable?
^ That’s a source that I Like. It’s free. Some of the books are better in published paper form though. Some of the digital versions are text-only and lose something (I think) when they don’t have the diagrams or pictures.
Valoel wrote:Euhemerus wrote:I’d like to read these, and I know of some of them but am not sure how to get a hold of them? What do you recommend? Are the sources on the internet sufficient or reliable?
^ That’s a source that I Like. It’s free. Some of the books are better in published paper form though. Some of the digital versions are text-only and lose something (I think) when they don’t have the diagrams or pictures.
Sweet, thanks!. Thanks, Morzen. In Christianity, anointings were frequently performed by women. For example, it was a women who washed and anointed Christ’s feet and used precious oils to prepare His body for burial. The use of sacred or Holy Oils is very symbolic in many ways. For example, extra virgin olive oil cleanses the internal body of damaging free radicals because it is loaded with high-potency antioxidants. This oil also helps rid the body of artery-clogging cholesterol because it raises the High Density Lipoproteins (HDLs). HDLs are the “good cholesterol” that carries cholesterol from the artery to the liver where it can be destroyed. Olive oil is therefore a symbol of cleansing the body, removing all that is “impure” and replacing it with that which is good. This sacred oil is also symbolic of the “oil in the lamps” of the virgins who were preparing to meet the Bridegroom (Christ). We all need the Light of Christ and His Spirituality and we should frequently replace our “spiritual oil” because that is what giveth light unto the world.
Anciently, sacred oils were used by women to “cast out evil spirits or devils”. Certain oils, have been scientifically proven to greatly relieve epileptic seizures and mental illness. The new science of Lipomics (the study of therapeutic fatty acids) is one of the most promising for the treatment of schizophrenia, bipolar disease and epilepsy.
The fatty acid, DNA is now in all infant formula. This wonderful Omega-3 (found in fish oil) can actually absorb electrical charges in the brain and help the brain to resist seizures. There is so much truth to the belief that oils could “cast out evil spirits”.
Women has often been the practitioners of Holy Anointings and it is an act of service associated with the “Healing Arts”.
Another ancient calling of women was Nurse Midwifery or the delivery of human infants. Woman delivered most of the babies in ancient times. The “washings” or sacred hand washing rituals actually prevented the fatal childbed fevers that women used to suffer from infection. The washing cleanses the hands of staph and strep bacteria and prepares one to deliver an infant in an ascetic manner. The washings and anointings were very important to the Nurse Midwifes because they helped prevent maternal death from infection and hemorrhage. The blessings provided comfort, calmness and relief from pain during childbirth.
I love the term, anointing and I do not like the term, “initiation”. Initiation is a “manly” term associated with fraternal organizations. “Anointing” is a feminine term associated with the sacred callings of women to be life-givers, healers, and nurturers.
My best friend lent me her book on the Biblical use of Holy Oils and Washings by women. I love it. I have wondered if the poor women, living in unsanitary, Third-World conditions, could be taught the simple concepts of proper hand-washing before delivering a baby. Surely, it would reduce maternal morbidity and infant mortality. I wish that women could be taught this in the Temple (actually they are). The problem is that the significance of these simple, live-preserving acts, is somewhat lost when the Temple Ceremony turns to ritual, blood covenants and fraternal oaths. That is why I am so very opposed to Masonic Ritual. It destroys the sweet, tender, life-giving symbolism of ancient anointings.
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