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Sustaining the leadership – doesn’t mean agreeing with everything they say or do, they contradict one another after all Thomas S. Monson – I like the guy and approve of what he does and says, I have no problem with sustaining him as prophet/president.
BoM – I get spiritual food from it, even if I can’t square it with archeology etc.
Restoration – I think that most churches have certain corrupt doctrines and probably something of the sort was needed.
Chastity and WoW, these are the clinchers for many people, for basic reasons.
Cnsl1, I find your observation both illuminating and disturbing at the same time. Says a lot about our culture of guilt. We who have wrestled and struggled to determine what we believe and how we want to live fit awkwardly in the compartmentalization of orthodoxy, but we feel at peace with ourselves. Whereas even those active LDS who live the checklist retain a lingering sense of inadequacy. Enoch wrote:We who have wrestled and struggled to determine what we believe and how we want to live fit awkwardly in the compartmentalization of orthodoxy, but we feel at peace with ourselves. Whereas even those active LDS who live the checklist retain a lingering sense of inadequacy.
Yep. I will echo what others have said. I never felt “worthy” to attend the temple when I was a TBM, orthodox mormon – — always lingering doubt and guilt.
I do feel “worthy” now however, and I am very much at peace with god and myself. I just can’t come to terms with my tribal membership and I certainly can’t “pass” many of the TR questions at this time
Retaining a sense of inadequacy is not a bad thing, in and of itself. It helps blunt our natural egotism and keeps us focused on growth and change (repentance) – or, at least, it does in proper balance and moderation. It’s when it turns toward self-loathing and becomes a shackling tool that it becomes “bad”. Just because I feel worthy of a temple recommend doesn’t mean I don’t understand my own inadequecy. And perhaps that is the balance you speak of Ray but as I read your words I felt that twinge of angst against being told yet again that I’m not good enough, and don’t forget it. Don’t worry I don’t forget how very imperfect I am, I just realize now that I am as worthy as anyone else. I find that this realization is actually freeing me to grow and change. As you say, I was very shackled with irrational guilt and I think that is the guilt we are talking about not the remorse we feel when we do something that hurts another person. Just thought I would clarify that.
Yeah, Canadiangirl, I think I get what you are saying. As a TBM we conditioned to feel guilt about EVERYTHING and we are preached “PERFECTION, PERFECTION, PERFECTION! and that even “small sins” are enough to send one to hell. Somebody had a great quote in their signature that said to effect, “I tried perfection – I’m done with it.” Absolutely, I’m done with that kind of mentality. I am just who I am — I can live with that, and I think god is okay with it too. Sure, I don’t keep the
LDScommandments anymore, but I certainly apply gospel principles in my life now more than I ever have. Quote:I read your words I felt that twinge of angst against being told yet again that I’m not good enough, and don’t forget it.
I understand that reaction, canadiangirl, even though it’s not at all what I meant or said. It’s the one part of our Mormon culture I would smash to pieces in a heartbeat if I could – and the idea that we really are good enough but simply need to try to do a little better as we go through life was one of Pres. Hinckley’s central messages. Unfortunately, for those who naturally have a perfection complex (which is a fairly good-sized percent of all groups)
ANDfor those who had a bastardized version of perfection pounded into them (which is a too large percent of the Church) . . . yeah, I get that response. It really is a balance, however – and it’s really easy to overlook that for many people. People collectively tend to gravitate to the extremes (“The Church is a soulless cult” vs. “All is well in Zion” – or “I am fine just the way I am, thank you, so quit telling me I need to try to be better” vs. “I suck and never will be good enough” – etc.) – so teaching a message that works to motivate people at both extremes and everywhere in between them is really hard.
Frankly, I think that’s one reason why different apostles and Prophets have different personalities and perspectives – so everyone can hear someone “speak to them personally”. It makes it hard for people to listen to someone preaching to “the others” – but, at least, the others do get to hear their message, as well.
It’s when someone is in the group that hears “the other message” more often than “my message” that it gets difficult.Recognizing that both messages are being taught, conflicting though they might be, helps.
You might be interested in this post:
http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=880&start=0&hilit=paul (Paul vs. John: Why I Am Grateful for a Quorum of 12 Apostles)
Accepting imperfection (while trying to improve on it) has helped me a lot being back in the church. I really do get what you are saying Ray and I agree, I just can’t put myself in the other camp’s shoes. I know there are people who are motivated by being told to do more and be more I just really don’t understand it and yes I can see how it is a tricky balance as leaders to speak in a way that will motivate the most people. And thank you for so strongly stating that you would like to squash the do more, be more insanity of our culture. Me too.
I know that you didn’t mean or say what I was feeling, I just wanted to share my response to your words and try to hash out why exactly I react in that way. I do believe it is my perfectionist personality added to the family I grew up in, the town I live in, and the church that has caused so much pain to surround this topic. I really am working on letting it go but obviously I’m not fully able to yet.
Thanks to all who have responded to my OP. Your words have really helped me sort things out.
I struggle with the whole notion of ‘tiered’ membership; members and real TR members. I think has been helpful advice here for me though. Thanks.
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