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You can go to the Celestial Room after doing any ordinance in the temple. You just have to be properly clothed. OK. That’s cool then. I’ve gone to the Celestial Room several times after doing initiatories. I always ask, and they say to just go in temple clothing without endowment clothing. I felt a litle funny the first time, but have appreciated being allowed there without doing an endowment session. wayfarer, that was beautiful. My negativity about the endowment seems to be settling in for a long stay. Thanks for sharing a different experience.
Our temple has an indoor atrium that you can sit in and find peace, reflect, meditate. It’s gorgeous and you can wear any style of clothes. Most often it’s Sunday church wear, but I’ve seen people in jeans and t-shirts just sitting there. One time a couple of curious teens came in, they looked like they had just partied, the matron ushered them in and offered them a seat. It was one of the most impressive demonstrations of love I’ve witnessed.She did not cast them out. They sat for 10 minutes, then said thanks and headed out. Anyway – maybe your temple has a similar lobby or atrium. That’s a way to be there and not at the same time.
Mom3, San Diego by chance? I’ve heard about the atrium but the one time I went there, I didn’t know where it was and we didn’t ask. I regret it now because I’ve heard it’s beautiful. While the temple endowment has changed, it still stands as a symbol to the spiritual endowment that we can receive directly from the Lord. Each law is a lesson in love that we can learn through the Spirit. The temple itself is just a rehearsal. Real life is where to get the real thing.
I did not understand these truths until I could no longer go to the temple. I can’t attend the temple because I can’t honestly answer the question of whether our church leaders are prophets, seers, and revealators in the affirmative. I am not worried about it because I feel close to the Lord and His Spirit and have had many wonderful spiritual experiences in my own home.
So what I’m saying is, I’m not trying to persuade anyone to go to the temple and I’m not trying to persuade anyone to stop. But it might help in making that decision to understand what the temple is all about. There is valuable truth available there. But if the only thing you do to find that truth is attend the temple, you are going to miss out on the real thing, because the real thing is life and loving others.
I confess I’m not a big temple lover. I suggest you ask your wife what she likes about it and gets from it. Just listen to her perspective. It doesn’t work the same for everyone. My husband likes to feel closer to family who has passed on, and I think that’s a very valid perspective. I am able to feel that at times. I get put off by the sexism, especially how women are treated differently than men in requiring women to harken to men directly, putting a middle man between us and God like we are second class citizens, then requiring us to cover our faces, again, another separation from God that men don’t have. Aside from that I find it kind of boring, so overall it’s a net neutral on a good day (boring can be peaceful at times), and sometimes a net negative. Mostly it’s just 3 hours of my life. I prefer initiatories, although I don’t buy the explanation that they have anything to do with Aaron’s priests being anointed. That’s a recent change.
The last time I went, though, I wanted to see what I would feel spiritually knowing that I’m not a huge fan. I really did open my heart and mind to the experience, and I felt something. It wasn’t life shattering revelation, just a sense of peace, and specifically when the sexist stuff was said, I heard a voice that said it wasn’t real, it didn’t come from God, and that I should just ignore it. It was like there was a shield in front of me, and that stuff just bounced off. I felt I had a more direct source than the temple script and that source was comforting.
I think that’s a great attitude to have Hawkgrrrl. Not just for uncomfortable temple parts but life in general. Even as a man I always felt uncomfortable with certain things like this and also disliked the fact That because I was born male(not off choosing) that more was expected if me. I will never feel comfortable being “the head of house). My personality is I don’t like leadership, so I can’t be one myself. But rather naturally since youth believed in a cooperation coordination, working closely together type style. My fiancé looks to me as the very soon future head of house.
I try but massively uncomfortable with it. It’s not my personality type at all.
Weather or not baptism for the dead really works, I always did feel comfortable and enjoyed it from a time to time basis.
I feel massively uncomfortable being a head of anything since I don’t like tiered structures but strongly prefer teamwork on the same tier to get things done. As I marry next week, will see how it goes.
Quote:I get put off by the sexism, especially how women are treated differently than men in requiring women to harken to men directly, putting a middle man between us and God like we are second class citizens, then requiring us to cover our faces, again, another separation from God that men don’t have. Aside from that I find it kind of boring, so overall it’s a net neutral on a good day (boring can be peaceful at times), and sometimes a net negative. Mostly it’s just 3 hours of my life. I prefer initiatories, although I don’t buy the explanation that they have anything to do with Aaron’s priests being anointed. That’s a recent change.
To be fair, Hawkgrrl, women are excluded from no part of the Endowment, and it would only take some minor tweaks to make women equal partners in it.
SamBee – oh, I totally agree with you that it wouldn’t take much to make it equal. But so far that much isn’t forthcoming. I was endowed in 1988, and it’s been that way the whole time. If you were sitting on the female side, I don’t see how you could feel differently. It’s so unlike my usual day to day experience to be subordinated and treated in a way that is less than the men. It was very shocking the first time I went through, before my mission. My daughter loves the temple, but those aspects bother her greatly. I don’t blame her in the slightest.
I was also always bothered by the sexist stuff even though I was born and raised in the church and taught over and over that women weren’t really unequal to men. It just feltwrong and nothing I could do could change that no matter how hard I tried to talk myself into believing it. I’m grateful for that because as I became more bold in my relationship with God, I finally openly admitted to myself and Him that I really did have a problem with it and I’ve learned some incredible truths because of that. I can see now that men and women really are equal but I don’t see that reflected in the general teachings/culture of the church. As for the male above who is uncomfortable leading, might I suggest considering something that I believe is true? I believe that it is the man’s sphere to lead spiritually and the woman’s sphere to lead physically. You might learn some interesting things if you allow your wife full leadership in physical things (how the house is set up/run, how the kids are physically taken care of, etc.) and you focus only on leading in the spiritual things, beginning of course with making sure you have integrated the gospel into your own life. It’s just an opinion of mine and I haven’t been able to make it work in my own family yet because my husband thinks he’s the boss of everything
🙄 but I thought you might want to consider it.The Proclamation to the World says it’s up to each couple to adapt to their own circumstances, so I agree with Called_to_Serve in the sense that we ought to be open enough to consider all options and structures of responsibilities in our marriages and implement whatever makes the most sense for us as individual couples. I find this interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veil The main takeaway is there are traditional symbolic elements of the veil that may be viewed as both positive and negative – maybe more negative overall from a feminist perspective, but different from what I had ever thought.
I appreciate your comments Called to serve and Ray. Thank you. I’ll just have to take it as I go. I’m a “50% intellect then 50% guided by the exact situation and circumstance, individual situation” kind of guy. I frequently change the procedures or way of doing things from day to day, hour to hour, situation to situation. That is my personality. Ever changing per each situation. As this is my first marriage and I have lived by myself for 14 years I wonder if it might confuse her. I guess time will tell and I’ll try my best. I just can’t stand to live someone else’s life anymore, I’ve been doing that my whole life and I’m trying to find what makes me, well me.
I’m still learning. In all honesty my heart was broken one to many times about 5 years ago. A situation that left me mostly emotionless and hasn’t improved much. Which puts me an in awkward situation as I made all my previous situations guided by emotion. Now I can’t because I can’t feel it much. I know how my father feels now after he came back from Vietnam. He never displayed emotion hardly ever either growing up. I thought it would get better in time or heal but I guess not. I now rely on knowledge to make decisions tailored to that specific situation and work from there.
My wife is an avid temple lover and I want to support her and encourage her. I think portions of things bother me more then her, which makes me feel more awkward. But I always analyze things automatically like a muscle reflex and it appears she doesn’t analyze anything by her comments. I’m happy she is happy there though.
F_C, I am primarily a thinker (although I am sensitive to some things); my wife is primarily a feeler (although she is an intelligent person). Together, we form a pretty complete person. I love her for completing me (and accepting my thinking nature); she loves me for completing her (and accepting her feeling nature).
It sounds like you have a chance for that with your wife. God bless you that it will work and that you (as two-made-one) will find the joy that my wife and I have found.
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