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There’s a piece in the SL Tribune today by Peggy Fletcher Stack about Terryl and Fiona Givens’ new book, The God Who Weeps: How Mormonism Makes Sense of Lifehttp://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/lifestyle/55141238-80/god-book-says-fiona.html.csp Quote:In recent years, Fiona and Terryl Givens have been surrounded by smart, educated young Mormons who are abandoning their faith at an alarming rate, claiming it is intellectually unsatisfying.
The LDS husband and wife from Richmond, Va., were overcome with frustration and sorrow watching the exodus.
The Utah-based Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints cannot afford to lose these bright minds, the literary couple reasoned, and so felt an urgency to remind their disaffected friends of, as they put it, “Mormonism’s theological gems.”
I’m curious as to what people think. Do we need more theology? Is that what’s making us leave or fall away, not enough of the deep things of the kingdom? The other thing that was interesting was the level of anger and bitterness in the comments.
Yes, that’s part of it – but the other half of that is the need for the members to rely on themselves for the meat and let the Church continue to provide the milk. There are enough new converts in most places that the milk is important to them. I can have a feast any time I want, so, while I understand the frustration, I just can’t put the blame on the Church if I’m malnourished spiritually and theologically. The fact that I’m not only emphasizes that for me. I understand that it’s easier for me to say that than for many othres, given my personality and background, but that doesn’t lessen the truth of it for me.
As with every person and every interaction with every community and organization, there is legitimate “blame” to go around and stick to everyone. Seeing that smiple fact can be incredibly liberating.
For me it’s not a matter of blame. People need milk and interestingly that’s what’s there in print, not the meat that gets extrapolated out of the basic doctrines. What happens is loss of belief and when you look at the five points they bring up, it’s hard to appreciate their worth and significance because they all rest on a foundation of belief to be of significance. If the belief has been replaced with disillusionment, then the gems Givens and his wife write about don’t matter. Everything flows from a basic truth like roots of a tree and if that starts to wither for whatever reason, the trunk and branches don’t survive. I’m just starting to read this. So far really good! In my opinion, GB, groups have been around for decades searching deeper subjects and wanting meat. From what I can tell, going back JS days people were always wanting more more more. We seem to be insatiable that way. I think the tension has always existed on some having greater need to know the mysteries, and the church correlating material to keep order and help establish common beliefs that help the church move forward and grow.
What I think the current tensions are revealing are the new elements of information availability and flow of ideas with the Internet, and the Church hasn’t responded quickly enough because older leaders of the church don’t appreciate the younger members’ appetite. The correlated culture has developed a phobia of sorts to challenging the correlated material. That is the biggest problem, to me.
I am not sure the church can provide the meat to all. There is a personal journey element I don’t know how can be institutionalized. But the fact that people feel warned about doing what Ray says, or even looked down upon for venturing into that space, is more the problem the church needs to fix from within. IMO.
I recall Bro. Bushman talking about how he believed that we need to move to a more universal doctrine salvation. That the idea that everyone will be judged on what they had/not what they didn’t. And that their life without the “gospel” matters or is just as significant as ours may be with the “gospel.” Doctrinally they are the Church of the Firstborn, or servants of God with the seal of God upon their foreheads “of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues” (Rev. 7:9), or the other sheep spoken of in the Bible and BOM.
Bro. Bushman believed that such a more inclusive approach would lessen the tension created when viewing all of humanity vs. the few that have become members or even fewer that have been through the temple while living.
I view Bro. Givens approach along a similar vein. If his 5 points can take a sufficient hold in the church that they become acceptable variations of belief – then there is more room for all of us in the church.
Heber13 wrote:I am not sure the church can provide the meat to all. There is a personal journey element I don’t know how can be institutionalized. But the fact that people feel warned about doing what Ray says, or even looked down upon for venturing into that space, is more the problem the church needs to fix from within. IMO.
I completely agree with Heber!
Quote:I am not sure the church can provide the meat to all. There is a personal journey element I don’t know how can be institutionalized.
I agree with Heber. This is why I ventured out on my own, but now I feel jaded because many of the general authorities such as Boyd K. Packer and Dallin H. Oaks say to avoid gospel hobbies, and not to become too learned. It’s too late. With a graduate degree, I find myself getting really bored in Priesthood, Sacrament Meeting, and Sunday School. Institute classes tend to be a little more stimulating, but you have to spend time with the young adult college crowd and much of it is “more entertaining,” than pure enlightenment. Besides you have to sacrifice an evening of your time to do so.
I am very disillusioned with how things are. I know the church won’t change to suit me, but it is impossible for me to change to fit the church. “To be learned is good if they follow the counsels of God.” (2 Nephi 9:29) So, as long as I follow the counsel of God I can be as learned as I want to be. Yet, I am burned out on being learned since those that would benefit are those that like intellectually stimulating conversations, and philosophy.
When the church wants to give milk all the time, My soul replies, “I’m lactose intolerant.”
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