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MapleLeaf wrote:Rix wrote:
The gnostic gospels emphasize much more the next step…that is that God IS within each of us. IOW, yes, Jesus IS God, and each of us “is God” too. It’s particularly clear in the gospel of Truth, and Mary.
The Gnostic gospels certainly do take it another step, don’t they… lol. Rix and I have gone back and forth extensively on our disagreement on the validity of Gnosticism, so I don’t want to hijack the thread over it. But I couldn’t let the opportunity pass by to address this!
Jesus didn’t claim to be God in the sense that we are all gods deep down inside. He claimed to be God in the Jewish sense that there is one creator (Deut. 6:4) who was prophecied to come down in the flesh (Zechariah 2:10-11, John 1:14) and be “God with us” (Isaiah 7:14, Matt. 1:23). MUCH different from the eastern religious concept.
and much different than the gnostic — and much more accurate, IMHO — concept.
I’m not really sure who Jesus was either. I don’t doubt that he literally existed, but these days I feel more comfortable seeing him as a great example than the Savior. Unsurprisingly, I’m with Rix on this one. If the “way” to “God” is through “Christ”, than that example of Christ as God and us as Christ and us as God is, imho, a beautiful construct. We are God. God is Us. That fits the paradigm of “following” Christ, imo. I like that symbology whether it is literal or mythic. In my mind, it works either way. Or, better said, doesn’t matter either way since the outcome is the same.
You guys are awesome. Hijack away, I’m good. Another post I really like Swim. In the struggle when I was realizing I just couldn’t hang onto many of my prior images anymore I started to find value in thinking this way. So many spiritual things CANNOT be proven, or “known” in any concrete way. After taking that to heart I started pondering what is important, what “works”? That made it much easier to take spiritual things for the direction they point us, and not worry so much about what is literal and what is mythical/metaphorical. It’s spiritual, it speaks to my inner self, that’s what matters. Tom Haws wrote:MapleLeaf wrote:Jesus didn’t claim to be God in the sense that we are all gods deep down inside. He claimed to be God in the Jewish sense that there is one creator (Deut. 6:4) who was prophecied to come down in the flesh (Zechariah 2:10-11, John 1:14) and be “God with us” (Isaiah 7:14, Matt. 1:23). MUCH different from the eastern religious concept.
In your most honorable, but humble, opinion, of course.
I did include scriptural references!
Tom Haws wrote:
Am I hearing with you that “the I” is the way, the truth, and the life, and that no man cometh to the Father but by “the me”? To know oneself truly?The problem with interpretations like these is that they are reading too much into the text. It uses Jesus’ words but takes them completely out of context of what he was saying. You might say this is just my opinion, sure, but I can back it up.
Tom, I’m guessing your statement is from Tolle? Not sure if you meant it jokingly or not, but people do actually interpret Jesus’ words that way. If he meant “the I” or the self was the way, don’t you think he would have said it that way? EVERY other parable that Jesus tells regarding “the way”, it always involves a
specificperson – himself. Not the abstract concept of “the I” or “the me”. Just read on in the chapter, and you’ll see how absurd the concept is: John 14:13-15
“And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. If ye love me, keep my commandments.”
Now, let’s Tolle-ize this…
“And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name [or, in the name of “the me”], that will I [actually “the I”] do, that the Father [actually an abstract force of love that we call God] may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my [actually your own, “the me”] name, I [“the I”] will do it. If ye love me [“the me”], keep my [your own] commandments.”
Obviously absurd, and obviously not what Jesus was talking about. Yet I used the exact same logic that is used to suggest that Jesus said “the I” is the way to God. Look, the simple fact is that Jesus’ teaching were given in a Jewish context… one in which a Messiah (read: a specific individual) was expected. He wasn’t teaching in a Hindu/Buddhist context in which we are all part of the same substance. As much as we want to drag Jesus into the eastern philosophies, it’s a huge stretch (See “Was Jesus a Buddhist” for my further argument on this one).
One persons absurdity is anothers spiritual path. 
Keep on truckin, Maple Leaf. I have absolutely no problem with your interpretation. I think it’s beautiful! just me wrote:One persons absurdity is anothers spiritual path.
Perfect!
😆 ML, I’m sure there is much logic to what you say, and it may even be correct, who knows?! It’s just that for me, I choose to not take some written words that are in “scripture” to be absolutely correct, or even literal. There have been too many exposes on the problems with them. So I’m not saying they are definitely “wrong,” but that they are possibly incorrectly representative of what Jesus (and others) actually said or meant.
So I try to take what feels like a teaching consistent with love, and leave out the rest. But as always, that’s just my approach.
Quote:One person’s absurdity is another person’s spiritual path.
and that, ladies and gentlemem, is the root reason why it’s possible to stay LDS joyfully and peacefully and fully despite all the things we discuss here.
Thanks, just me. It doesn’t get any more “plain and precious” than that.
MapleLeaf wrote:“And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name [or, in the name of “the me”], that will I [actually “the I”] do, that the Father [actually an abstract force of love that we call God] may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my [actually your own, “the me”] name, I [“the I”] will do it. If ye love me [“the me”], keep my [your own] commandments.”
Wow, I think that is as close to my own personal perspective as I’ve seen…
😳 From an abstract perspective, God sent me here to earth to learn to be like Him… The above quote sounds like a good, hands-off mentor program….
Especially that last part: “If I love me, I keep my commandments.” I think, at some level, God may approve of this.
swimordie wrote:MapleLeaf wrote:“And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name [or, in the name of “the me”], that will I [actually “the I”] do, that the Father [actually an abstract force of love that we call God] may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my [actually your own, “the me”] name, I [“the I”] will do it. If ye love me [“the me”], keep my [your own] commandments.”
Wow, I think that is as close to my own personal perspective as I’ve seen…
😳 From an abstract perspective, God sent me here to earth to learn to be like Him… The above quote sounds like a good, hands-off mentor program….
Especially that last part: “If I love me, I keep my commandments.” I think, at some level, God may approve of this.
Fits quite well with the “Light of Christ” concept, IMO.
MapleLeaf wrote:If you want to get to know me, go directly to me. Don’t go to Steve to get to know me… Steve’s a nice guy, but you might as well go to the source.
Hey! What did I do, or not do, to deserve that kind of response?!
Steve-hpias wrote:MapleLeaf wrote:If you want to get to know me, go directly to me. Don’t go to Steve to get to know me… Steve’s a nice guy, but you might as well go to the source.
Hey! What did I do, or not do, to deserve that kind of response?!
Aw, Steve, as much as your King K Rool avatar would frighten some, I’m sure you’re a nice guy! You also happen to possess the first name that came to mind that day!
😆 swimordie wrote:MapleLeaf wrote:“And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name [or, in the name of “the me”], that will I [actually “the I”] do, that the Father [actually an abstract force of love that we call God] may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my [actually your own, “the me”] name, I [“the I”] will do it. If ye love me [“the me”], keep my [your own] commandments.”
Wow, I think that is as close to my own personal perspective as I’ve seen…
😳 From an abstract perspective, God sent me here to earth to learn to be like Him… The above quote sounds like a good, hands-off mentor program….
Especially that last part: “If I love me, I keep my commandments.” I think, at some level, God may approve of this.
It may be a good life philosophy, Swim. Who knows? You might be on to something. But as an interpretation of what Jesus was actually saying, I honestly think it’s far off the mark – based on the context of his life and teachings.
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