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Random questions: Why do members of the Church always say “I know the Churchis true?” Isn’t it the gospelthat is true? I am perplexed. Yes, good question. I think it is simply the perpetuation of a bad habit that was probably started 100 years ago (or more). People just don’t think a lot of the time (as in “I couldcare less”) about what they’re saying – in my opinion. What Orson said. It’s cultural habit, and it simply means, imo, “I know that God directs the Church.” It’s clunky and odd phraseology to me, but I “get it” as far as what people generally mean by it, so I let it ride and don’t worry about it.
It is mormon-speak, a cultural cliche’ repeated over and over for generations. I actually had a problem with that statement from my teenage years forward. It just never seemed to sit right with me. I don’t think I said the Church is true even as a missionary. I always preferred to say “the Gospel is true.” To me right now, when I hear people say that in their testimonies, I hear them saying “I feel really good about the Church.” The Church isn’t true, in a factual sense IMO (but the Gospel is). And even if the LDS Church were “True,” they are not making a statement of knowledge in the sense of what that word means. Few of the people going up to the podium know much about the Church beyond what they experience in their Sunday attendance (which is limited).
When asked for their justification or reason, it would come down to a spiritual feeling they have/had. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I am happy for them. It’s just their statement doesn’t communicate the right idea to people who don’t know mormon-speak (and mormons who never really thought about it).
Thank you for your responses. I always thought it was odd that members said “The Church is
true.” I doubt anyone would ever say “The Church is false.” So it’s not a true/false mind-think. Sorry to jump in so late, when the comments seem to have slowed down. IMO, what those people intend, generally speaking, is to testify of their conviction that the church really is the legitimate and led-by-authorized-leaders church of Christ. Saying ” I know the church is true” is quicker and smoother to say. It’s like saying “We’re grateful for the moisture we’ve received,” or “I would be ungrateful today if I didn’t . . .” Also, they probably mean “gospel” but say “church.” hawkgrrrl wrote:It’s like saying “We’re grateful for the moisture we’ve received,” or “I would be ungrateful today if I didn’t . . .” Also, they probably mean “gospel” but say “church.”
That reminds me of an excellent talk given by Eugene England — “Why the Church is as True as the Gospel”. What a provocative title — but he really delivers, IMO.HiJolly
This is a habit. Picked up from a long history of Testimonies and continues to this day. I am thankful for your post and I personally do not say this. I have a testimony of the restored gospel. I believe that the teachings of this gospel are true. Old habits die hard.
It is similar to the sustaining of members in callings and business from the pulpit. I recall a Stake High Councilor bringing a motion to move the church building 26 feet to the north. All of the adults raised their hands sustaining and no one opposed. Then he asked several people what he had just brought before them and they did not know even thought they had sustained…
Interesting food for thought…
I had a thought that sounds appropriate for this question. It is a little like the concept of “keeping the commandments.” Stephen E. Robinson in his book, Believing Christ, explains that the biblical interpretation of “to the keep the commandments” is that we try really hard and SEEK to keep the commandments, not that we actually always do it, because that really isn’t going to happen. Saying “the church is the true church” is much like this. In otherwords, it is God’s church and it is SEEKING all truth. Also remember, saying this is the true church is not anything like saying this is a perfect church. It simply means that it is the church where God’s prophet leads. The Church points in the “true” direction. It doesn’t mean it (or we) got there yet. Valoel wrote:The Church points in the “true” direction. It doesn’t mean it (or we) got there yet.
Exactly!!In the New Testament era, The Church is likened to two things: the body of Christ and the bride of Christ – as it sometimes is today when the New Testament is studied. Furthermore, there was to be one faith, one Lord, one baptism. With each church denomination in the early reformation years having a different “common denominator” – a different set of beliefs (i.e., “faith”, and sometimes baptism), the question arose as to which faith (and baptism) was in accord with the original apostolic teachings. They assumed or understood that such a church would be the true bride of Christ and or alternately the true body of Christ. All others faiths, denominations, churches would not be the same as the one that had been established in New Testament times. Therefor all others would be something other than the true “bride” and “body.” After all, the true bride and body (Church) has only one faith, Lord and baptism and therefor cannot encompass all the various forms of faiths, baptisms, etc., that the general body of “christianity” encompassed. I suspect that the matter of the “Church” being “true” is strange to most people responding to this post for several reasons. 1. We don’t think of the Church in symbolic terms (i.e., as the bride or body) and therefore don’t think of any churches as imposter brides or bodies of Christ. 2. Unlike in the past, few other churches today believe in a “one true Church” and so without their claiming to be that one true Church/bride/body, we don’t perceive them as imposter churches, brides or bodies of Christ. 3. Like the general population, we tend not to associate so much with others who witness of their faiths and so we are unlikely to even know that others generally believe that today’s true Church of Jesus Christ is the whole body of Christian believers. This belief is why some consider us not Christians. After all, our beliefs are not one with their beliefs on some very critical points – some of which points are mostly imagined or exaggerated in their minds but critical, and other points that are significant to us, such as our having the keys to the kingdom of heaven. It is “The True…”
The actual “bride”, the actual “body”, the actual “kingdom”, the actual “posessor” of the keysto the kingdom of heaven. These are some of the meanings of “the True Church.” And a careful comparison of theology in New Testament times with those of the LDS and other faiths go a long ways to certify the LDS Church as the one and only with the same one faith, Lord and baptism and therefor the only viable candidate for being actual and therefor “True” bride, body, kingdom, posessor (i.e., “Church”). Nathan, I think it is important to know what the ancient church looked like and taught, but there are enough differences (and even radical differences) between the church then and the church now that I don’t think anyone is going to be convinced solely (or even primarily) by such a comparison. There generally has to be some other driving motivation to cause someone to consider those things, especially since everyone bases their claim on their own interpretation of exactly those things you list. Finally, there are enough translation issues already that relying on any interpretation of the Bible is tricky, at best. Even though I believe our most unique doctrines come from the Bible, I think the most that can be said as a foundation for those who don’t believe or are struggling to believe is that the overall Mormon view is no more illogical or obviously incorrect than anyone else’s interpretation. Once that’s accepted, each person can start constructing their own view of how the Church can be “true”. Mine is the compass “true north” – pointing us to our highest possibility.
In the end, I think your general answer is much like others’ answers: People mean that the Church is led by Jesus / God.
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