The Church needs a prophet. (?)

[Anonymous]

Old-Timer wrote:

Quote:

“It would be wonderful and SO SO much more easier if I believed President Monson was a “True Prophet”, one that talked to God face to face continuously-not just got revelation-I mean really speaks directly to him day by day. Unfortunately the more I think about it the more I find I can not accept it.”

Honestly, I think the above quote is the heart of the problem, even as I think the overall post is very insightful.

The above definition fits NOBODY within our canon – not even Jesus. Otoh, our scriptures and our modern history give us a pretty clear picture of very unique, different, flawed, “normal” people who filled a role as “prophets” – a role that actually varies in focus and responsibility over time. Some were administrators (Peter, Aaron, Brigham); some were visionary leaders (Abraham, Moses, Lehi, Jesus, Joseph); some were military men (Samson, Joshua, Moroni, Mormon); some were missionaries (Paul, the sons of Mosiah); some were caretakers (all of them from Jarom to Mosiah, many in the OT, most of them from John Taylor to Spencer W. Kimball); some were . . . controversial . . . to say the least (Samson, Jonah, Paul, Brigham);etc.

There are serious issues that have to be confronted when we stop hanging onto infallibility, but I believe we simply MUST stop asking our prophets to be what prophets never have been.

While I agree with your point on prophets being flawed (they certainly were all through the Old Testament), what is your opinion of the fact that there seems to be virtually no revelation anymore (and hasn’t been for a long time)? Well, maybe you disagree with me on that, but if you don’t disagree I’d be interested to hear your thoughts.

I mean at least Joseph, with all his flaws, was doing what prophets do: PROPHESYING…it seems no one else could. Is this why they hardly refer to the President of the Church as the prophet anymore?

Maybe I expect too much, but I don’t see the brethren as being any more inspired than the leader of any other denomination.

[Anonymous]

First, I define revelation differently than you do, Hercules, I’m sure.

Second, I said in the part you quoted:

Quote:

some were caretakers (all of them from Jarom to Mosiah, many in the OT, most of them from John Taylor to Spencer W. Kimball)

I would add that we have next to nothing in the NT from anyone but Jesus and John that qualifies as dramatic revelation (and, really, very little from most “prophets” in our canonized scriptures – and even those are highly suspect from purely a logical perspective.

I think tend to see modern prophets in comparison to visionaries like Moses, Joseph Smith, etc. (even the brother of Jared is recorded to have had exactly ONE dramatic vision in the entire record we have of his life) and completely overlook the fact that once the Old Testament ends, with a few obvious exceptions, that type of revelation essentially ceases. I think that’s because the primary definition of revelation changed – and the theological justification would be the replacement of the first two members of the Godhead with the third member of the Godhead as the primary communicator from God to humanity.

[Anonymous]

Old-Timer wrote:

First, I define revelation differently than you do, Hercules, I’m sure.

Second, I said in the part you quoted:

Quote:

some were caretakers (all of them from Jarom to Mosiah, many in the OT, most of them from John Taylor to Spencer W. Kimball)

I would add that we have next to nothing in the NT from anyone but Jesus and John that qualifies as dramatic revelation (and, really, very little from most “prophets” in our canonized scriptures – and even those are highly suspect from purely a logical perspective.

I think tend to see modern prophets in comparison to visionaries like Moses, Joseph Smith, etc. (even the brother of Jared is recorded to have had exactly ONE dramatic vision in the entire record we have of his life) and completely overlook the fact that once the Old Testament ends, with a few obvious exceptions, that type of revelation essentially ceases. I think that’s because the primary definition of revelation changed – and the theological justification would be the replacement of the first two members of the Godhead with the third member of the Godhead as the primary communicator from God to humanity.

Yeah, I can see your point of view. It just makes me reevaluate the 9th article of Faith: “we believe that he will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the kingdom of God”

[Anonymous]

Frankly, I see that as occuring in many instances through regular people (due to the change in communication model) and not just through leaders. I see the need for a church of prophets, not just a church led by prophets.

[Anonymous]

Hercules wrote:

While I agree with your point on prophets being flawed (they certainly were all through the Old Testament), what is your opinion of the fact that there seems to be virtually no revelation anymore (and hasn’t been for a long time)? Well, maybe you disagree with me on that, but if you don’t disagree I’d be interested to hear your thoughts.

I mean at least Joseph, with all his flaws, was doing what prophets do: PROPHESYING…it seems no one else could. Is this why they hardly refer to the President of the Church as the prophet anymore?

Maybe I expect too much, but I don’t see the brethren as being any more inspired than the leader of any other denomination.

While Joseph did do some prophesying about future events, most of what he recorded was revelation about how to administer the new church, what certain people should do, and establishing and clarifying church doctrine. He had a special role as the restorer of the Gospel, so many revelations were needed. With that said, subsequent prophets have certainly had revelations. Brother Brigham did some prophesying – I actually found an interesting article by no other than D. Michael Quinn:

Quote:

Nevertheless, there were occasions when President Young was greatly moved by the spirit of prophecy. In 1846 as the Saints struggled with sickness in their mid-winter departure from Nauvoo, President Young prophesied that the apostles who seemed near death with illness would be strong in health once they had settled in the place to which the Lord would lead them. Such was the case. On one occasion, President Young also gave a prophetic blessing to a young poetess, saying that her gift would flourish if she stayed close to the Church, but would die within her if she departed from the Saints. Despite a brief career of artistic brilliance, the young woman married a nonmember, departed the Church, and her poetic gift dramatically departed. In a prophecy affecting many persons, Brigham Young promised the members of the Mormon Battalion that they would not have to shed blood or engage in battle during their march into enemy territory in 1846–47. Although the Battalion penetrated enemy territory and captured their strongholds, neither battle nor bloodshed was necessary. http://www.lds.org/ensign/1977/08/brigham-young-man-of-the-spirit

Heber C. Kimball said:

Quote:

After a while the gentiles will gather by the thousands to this place, and Salt Lake City will be classed among the wicked cities of the world. A spirit of speculation and extravagance will take possession of the Saints, and the results will be financial bondage. Persecution comes next and all true Latter-day Saints will be tested to the limit. Many will apostatize and others will be still, not knowing what to do… (Deseret News, Church Department, p. 3, May 23, 1931.)

I believe Ezra Taft Benson prophesied about the expanse of American government and what will happen if we don’t use the Book of Mormon.

I believe President Hinckley received revelation regarding “The Family: A Proclamation to the World,” the building of the Conference Center, building small temples, rebuilding of the Nauvoo Temple, “The Living Christ: The Testimony of the Apostles,” and the Perpetual Education Fund.

President Monson has received countless revelations of another type – he is inspired to help people in many different ways. I believe he will receive any needed revelation for the Church.

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