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Today was a painful day in Relief Society. It began on an up note. Our lesson was taken from a talk given by the General Primary President. I cheered – A talk by a Woman. Hurrah.
Then came the title –
A Sin Resistant GenerationI won’t break the talk down, you can read it here if you like
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2017/04/a-sin-resistant-generation?lang=eng ” class=”bbcode_url”> https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2017/04/a-sin-resistant-generation?lang=eng The lesson itself wasn’t too bad. The teacher is young. Answers are simple. And plenty of people added more simple answers like, “let them see you pray” etc. Satan is the bad guy and so on.
But our ward also has a liberal streak, at least in RS is does, so various hands and voices pushed back. Gently at first, then a bit more boldly as the hour moved on.
With 15 minutes left to go the down hill run was halted by a more senior sister raising her hand and tearfully explaining that she had done all of the “right things” and more, yet still her children have strayed. They no longer believe. They are making horrible choices. She’s had to let go (her own words). The tears kept flowing. She asked if anyone else in the room had the same experience. Even those who have were silent.
There aren’t any soothing answers in our discourse for moments like this. A couple of women who had earlier announced that their kids were all active, quickly voiced “I am just lucky I guess.” and “It is really their choice. I just did the best I could” but neither of those helped.
Finally someone spoke from the back of the room. She talked about her Jack-Mormon Uncle who had “lost his way” and how his mother had grieved the loss. She said one day while talking to this aunt of hers she mentioned that Uncle Jack Mormon had been the biggest support to her during her teens. He’d never judged her. Her final statement was “See the good in your family. You just never know.”
All through the closing song you could hear the sobs and sniffles of this woman who believes she’s failed. It hurt way too bad.
I’m sorry. I’ve been in my ward for nearly 30 years. I’ve watched many families grow up and the adult children mostly move on. I’ve seen the “super faithful” never miss a home evening types and the far more liberal never have a home evening types. Turns out some of those families who never had home evening (or family prayer, scripture study, etc.) had children grow up to serve missions, marry in the temple, etc., and some of the children of the super faithful have formally left the church. I’m really not trying to make a comparison here (and I did hear and dislike the talk on which the lesson was based) but my observation is it doesn’t seem to matter and the lady who observed that she guessed she’s just lucky is right. The one family i thought was ideal in my ward had 6 children. They were always dressed in white shirts, very well behaved in church, etc. The parents would talk about family prayer and scripture study and FHE. The youngest of those children is now 30, recently divorced, never active after high school. Only two of his siblings are active. Twenty years ago I would not have predicted that. On the other hand, there was another family where the father was not a member and Mom struggled with her kids and church. The father was often resistant to church activities and sports and other activities were more important than church to him. Those kids are mostly active as adults.
Here’s the thing. There are no magic formulas. Just like more church and more scripture study and more prayer are not always the answer for those of us who struggle with faith and church, FHE and family prayer and scripture study don’t mean your children are all going to be Eagle Scouts/YW Award achievers, missionaries and temple married. People in the church need to stop teaching that. Those things certainly aren’t (mostly) going to hurt anyone – but it’s also not necessarily a 1+1+1=3 situation. There are no guarantees, and it ends up getting measured wrong. I have no idea what God is going to ask in that final interview – but I’m pretty sure it’s not going to be like this:
God: Did all your boys earn Eagle Scout and your daughters earn the Young Women award?
Me. No.
God: Did all your children serve missions?
Me: No.
God: Did your children all marry in the temple?
Me: No.
God: You have failed. You deserve to rot in the terrestrial kingdom.
Talk about being travel agents of guilt, I truly feel for this poor woman. On the other hand, I’d love to be there when she meets her Savior and He lifts her by her hand.
It’s sad that we have these artificial measures of “success.” While it’s true, we’ve got a beautiful dress to wear to the royal ball, it’s also true that a bunch of vermin didn’t miraculously band together to sew it for us, so obviously the dress isn’t good enough, the ball is ruined.
I hope I didn’t lose people on that analogy. To be more clear, I think the more judgmental and perfectionist aspects of our church culture always have us looking at what something isn’t instead of appreciating what something is.
Is my child in a loving relationship that makes them happy? Does whether or not they married in the temple prevent me from celebrating that?
If we can’t put that check beside the box on the checklist it eats at us.
There are more extreme problems than “Oh noes, they don’t attend church.” Like how you might feel if your child breaks the law or makes decisions that make them unhappy. That’s a tough one. Like DJ says, sometimes there’s nothing you can do. That one size fits all approach doesn’t actually fit all. Insisting on doing more scripture reading, FHE, HTing, seminary, etc. is going to drive some kids away; yet it appears to be the one solution to every problem at church. It feels like cultural compliance takes precedence over happiness.
As to why some of the most faithful members have inactive (or ex-mormon) children, I think some kids feel forced to do things or feel spoonfed because they were never really given the opportunity to make meaningful choices within the gospel- then when the opportunity arises, they go off and do their own thing. This does not account for all cases, but I think it applies to many. Not all leaving is permanent. I lived with this one family on my mission (I still keep in contact). They are TBM, mostly orthodox (the mother is glad she doesn’t live in Utah for social reasons and they have a few less orthodox attitudes like being willing to skip stake conference), and teach their kids in the typical TBM fashion, minus regular FHE. Her oldest daughter was very TBM as a teen- she went to seminary and memorized all the scripture masteries and whatnot. Then one day, she disappears, stops communicating with the family and elopes. They didn’t hear from her for a few years- until the time I was living with them, when she started talking with them again. I don’t know if she has become active again, but there is always that hope.
Our church leans heavily on agency/internal locus of control as a central pillar. Our checklists not only make ourselves acceptable to God they also call down the power of heaven on our behalf – allowing us to skew fate or random chance to our benefit.
We teach implicitly and explicitly that if you do your part you will live “happily ever after.”
nibbler wrote:
Is my child in a loving relationship that makes them happy? Does whether or not they married in the temple prevent me from celebrating that?
Yes This! Brian Johnson used to tell of a family member (Mother, Aunt, Grandmother?) that would seem to openly mourn Brian and his wife’s distance from the church. Brian wanted to say something like, “Hello! We are not dead! We are standing right here and just happen to be thoughtful, well adjusted adults with a stable and loving home environment – ThankYouVeryMuch!!!”
*PPFFBBTT!!!* That’s what I think about that. It reminded me of a testimony given many years ago, by this semi-newlywed woman with a couple of kids. She bore how she knew if she read scriptures with them, brought them to Church, and held family home evening, her children would never go astray.
This seems like one of the many promises given by the Church (religion) that can’t be guaranteed. Why were the promises made?
-Maybe the woman honestly believes it, because in her personal experience, 100% of the time she has followed such counsel, she has gotten the desired result.
-Maybe since following such counsel increases your chances that your children will “resist sin”, it is easy to dismiss those for whom it doesn’t work.
-Maybe such statments are made, rationalizing “the ends justify the means”. The congregation wouldn’t be as motivated without a guarantee.
-Or maybe they’re just speaking whatever makes themselves feel good (must be the Spirit).
I am 100% supportive of anyone being a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, even if it isn’t completely true, because of the power it has to help people become better, happier, more virtuous, and more at peace. But I hate these sort of messages which can set people up for heartbreaking agony and disappointment. It’s like a mother who tells her child to clean their room, promising to take them to Disneyland if they’re obedient. “Oops, sorry, it isn’t spotless. No Disneyland today.”
I’ve walked a mile in those shoes. As a convert there was a time where I felt the immense pressure to “save” my entire family. It was all on me to do my ancestor’s temple work and a part of that was making sure I raised kids that would be tethered to the church so that someone could carry on that work, complete the links that I couldn’t complete. I think that sentiment was expressed in Hinckley’s:
Quote:As I sat in the celestial room of the temple pondering these things, I said to myself, “Never permit yourself to become a weak link in the chain of your generations.” It is so important that we pass on without a blemish our inheritance of body and brain and, if you please, faith and virtue untarnished to the generations who will come after us.
Now we’ve got the shortened slogan “Multi-Generational Families” to guilt/help people. The woman that was crying during RS was probably buckling under the same pressure that I felt as a recent convert. A part of it is worry over being the weak link, whether there was something more we could have done; another part is not wanting to see a child become a weak link (as defined by the culture).
I see a lot of this as being based in fear. Fear over personal salvation. Fear over the salvation of the people we love. The fruits of viewing god as bureaucratic and vengeful? Is god really going to bar someone from heaven because they failed to dot an ‘i’ on page 34 on the Entrance to Heaven application form? Is god itching to rescind people’s salvation the first time they skip church on Sunday?
We created rules and checklists in our effort to assuage fears over our own salvation, we “bound” the lord into saving us when we’re checking all the boxes. Unfortunately binding the lord produced a negative side effect, the belief that we aren’t saved unless we are checking all the boxes.
I can empathize with the lady in RS. I’ve walked many miles in those shoes. It’s a difficult hole to crawl out of because at some point you have to think, “Hold on a second, surely god is better than this.” (at least that’s what it took for me) That can be hard when your faith has put up an impenetrable wall around your current concept of god, convincing yourself that your current concept of god is already perfect, meaning there is no trading up.
Nibbler – That is one of the most beautifully written posts I have read in a long time. You also hit the nail on the head. Under our current status a sin resistant person/family would never have lost one soul.
DarkJedi’s comment, Quote:On the other hand, I’d love to be there when she meets her Savior and He lifts her by her hand” really hit home to me.
In an LDS temple, the doorway is knocked upon. If no one answers at the veil, I have seen workers POUND on the doorway at the veil as they wait for someone representing God to show up. They demand that someone show up and be there.
I also think about how people stand at the veil. They do not kneel, they do not wait to be asked in. They know that they are worthy and righteous and they are there to pass a simple test to prove it. They feel entitled to enter the presence of God .. And pound on the doorway if necessary.
In full contrast, I like so much more the vision of one of God’s children kneeling and weeping and having God find them, having God take them by the hand and assist them to stand and come forward for a walk with Him.
Such images are so simple, and yet so very different.
AP wrote Quote:In full contrast, I like so much more the vision of one of God’s children kneeling and weeping and having God find them, having God take them by the hand and assist them to stand and come forward for a walk with Him.
We need a painting, hymn and poem for this. That so suits the God I have framed in my heart.
The following song has been meaningful for me: “Love Me” by JJ Heller
He cries in the corner where nobody sees
He’s the kid with the story no one would believe
He prays every night, “Dear God won’t you please
Could you send someone here who will love me?”
Who will love me for me
Not for what I have done or what I will become
Who will love me for me
‘Cause nobody has shown me what love
What love really means
Her office is shrinking a little each day
She’s the woman whose husband has run away
She’ll go to the gym after working today
Maybe if she was thinner
Then he would’ve stayed
And she says:
Who will love me for me?
Not for what I have done or what I will become
Who will love me for me?
‘Cause nobody has shown me what love, what love really means
He’s waiting to die as he sits all alone
He’s a man in a cell who regrets what he’s done
He utters a cry from the depths of his soul
“Oh Lord, forgive me, I want to go home”
Then he heard a voice somewhere deep inside
And it said
“I know you’ve murdered and I know you’ve lied
I have watched you suffer all of your life
And now that you’ll listen, I’ll tell you that I…”
I will love you for you
Not for what you have done or what you will become
I will love you for you
I will give you the love
The love that you never knew
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fUM86eL6tVw #Wow. Thank you for sharing. It is a powerful song
Buckets of tears. Thank you Roy and Amateur Parent.
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