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I’m just curious about this one. Pretty sure that our church does not have that stated as the official belief, yet if you ask anyone why a missionary can’t swim this is what they say. Does anyone have any official doctrine on this? My son was actually taught this in the MTC. D&C 61 mentions the dangers experienced by early leaders and missionaries while traveling on rivers, after William W. Phelps had been recorded as having had a daylight vision of “the destroyer” riding on the waters. One of the verses states pretty clearly but not directly that the dangers mentioned would pass, presumably not long after, but the idea that Satan rules the waters caught on and has survived ever since in Mormon folklore – especially when dealing with missionaries. The connection to Poseidon is obvious.
There is a peculiar silliness in holding onto legacy beliefs such as the “devil on the waters” nonesense. Since Joseph Smith expressed his opinions as revelation, and whatever Brigham Young declared was by definition to be believed, a corpus of dogma has emerged as quasi-official “Church Doctrine.” But in case anyone hasn’t noticed, there aren’t any recent major revelations, and thus restrictions and off-the-wall beliefs, once established, stick forever. Most of my Christian friends call it “legalism”
I just call it, “sad”.
The notion of “official doctrine” of the
Churchis therefore fluid. However, the Doctrine of Christ is quite explicit and distinct from this fluid mess of Church Doctrine. Joseph Smith, in 2 Nephi 31:20-21, wrote:Wherefore, ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, and a love of God and of all men. Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eternal life.
And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.
I was told this as a missionary (by another missionary). I think the reason for avoiding swimming is more mundane: safety. And when you consider where swimming takes place (beaches, swimming pools, lakes) you’ll see that it’s probably not a good idea to place a half-naked 19 year old (now 18 year old) man in close proximity with lots of half naked young women. He’s also lord of the air. So don’t many missionaries have to cross water anyway?
What about drinking the stuff in sacrament?
SamBee wrote:He’s also lord of the air.
So don’t many missionaries have to cross water anyway?
What about drinking the stuff in sacrament?
Or baptizing in the stuff.Now I understand the Fall. We are immersed in that stuff for nine months before we are born. 😮 😯 Why didn’t I see that earlier?
😳 Gerald wrote:I was told this as a missionary (by another missionary). I think the reason for avoiding swimming is more mundane: safety. And when you consider where swimming takes place (beaches, swimming pools, lakes) you’ll see that it’s probably not a good idea to place a half-naked 19 year old (now 18 year old) man in close proximity with lots of half naked young women.
Yeah, I agree this is nonsense. Missionaries in speedos is never going to be a good idea. Especially with loads of Sisters arriving.
Oh! That reminds me of one of the mission rumours from a few years before I arrived. A mixed district (2 sisters, 4 Elders) apparently got sent home because they were going swimming in the font in their Gs on a P-day. Lol, complete garbage I’m sure.
Bear in mind safety issues too… a lot of water in the tropics is dirty, and infested with diseases (meningitis, polio) or nasty parasites (flukes, worms etc). Also diving into a river is not always a good idea, especially when it’s shallower than you think… Thanks! I can see the correlation from D&C 61 to the Mormon folklore that the devil owns the water. Swimming in g’s would be WAY more revealing than in a bikini! 😆 Swimming in the sea is not a good idea either, unattended… you’ve got issues such as sharks, stepping on poisonous fish etc, and rip currents and undertow etc… seems like erring on the side of caution, but there is some sense there. Well, I have been crazy busy with work, injuries, and hurrican sandy mess. But this being of very high interst to me since I was young. My interest stems from the fact I am an oceanographer by hobby nearly all my life. On the outside it “appears” to make sense. Yes indeed Thier are shark attacks,very few lead to fatalities though(out of over 400 known species only about 30 are considered dangerous and of those only 12 species have been known to attack man. Their are fish like stone fish, Lion fish (I keep both in my aquirium at one time or another as well as blur ring Octos. Then their are the obvious drownings etc. but for all that the tottal deaths at sea per 1000 swimmers just doesn’t hold wait. The statistics speak for themselves that you are far more likely to be run over by a random car, die from a bee sting, robbed or mugged in any given city etc. statistically it just silly to make such an accusation with today’s facts and studies about the ocean. Now historically we didn’t have this and it let imaginations fly from any number of fears from the ocean(I still know ex missionaries that swear to never swim or go to the beach from these teachings). Of course knowing what I know, if “satan” really had been given the power over the sea, he has nothing to show for it. Such a terrible job he has done with land an any given area being more dangerous lol. This really is like the fear of flying. Seems rational on the outside but the statistics don’t match the underlining assumptions. Scuba diving off the coast of Catalina island is probably the most “god like” experince I have ever had. But like many other things, in the old days they tried to explain tatonic plates(earthquakes) volcano eruptions , hurricane with a connection to gods “Feelings” as well. In fact gangus kong (I know I spelled it wrong) used the fear of the thunder as and anger god back then to his advantage. By overtaking them during a thunderstorm to which they were terrified because of “gods wrath”. He used such superstitions to turn the tide in his favor. Anyway, the numbers show us that the sea is really really safe, certainly more so then the numbers on land. If their is anything to marvel at, it’s if he did in fact have control yet failed so miserably to do anything with it as to render it pointless lol.
Now missionaries in bathing suits near young women in bathing suits is a different story. But they do in fact have beaches were orthodox Jewish people go where there are few if any situations like that that even they feel safe to go to that paticular beach friending in beach and time of year.
Forgotten_Charity wrote:Well, I have been crazy busy with work, injuries, and hurrican sandy mess. But this being of very high interst to me since I was young. My interest stems from the fact I am an oceanographer by hobby nearly all my life. On the outside it “appears” to make sense. Yes indeed Thier are shark attacks,very few lead to fatalities though(out of over 400 known species only about 30 are considered dangerous and of those only 12 species have been known to attack man. Their are fish like stone fish, Lion fish (I keep both in my aquirium at one time or another as well as blur ring Octos. Then their are the obvious drownings etc. but for all that the tottal deaths at sea per 1000 swimmers just doesn’t hold wait. The statistics speak for themselves that you are far more likely to be run over by a random car, die from a bee sting, robbed or mugged in any given city etc. statistically it just silly to make such an accusation with today’s facts and studies about the ocean. Now historically we didn’t have this and it let imaginations fly from any number of fears from the ocean(I still know ex missionaries that swear to never swim or go to the beach from these teachings). Of course knowing what I know, if “satan” really had been given the power over the sea, he has nothing to show for it. Such a terrible job he has done with land an any given area being more dangerous lol. This really is like the fear of flying. Seems rational on the outside but the statistics don’t match the underlining assumptions. Scuba diving off the coast of Catalina island is probably the most “god like” experince I have ever had. But like many other things, in the old days they tried to explain tatonic plates(earthquakes) volcano eruptions , hurricane with a connection to gods
“Feelings” as well. In fact gangus kong (I know I spelled it wrong) used the fear of the thunder as and anger god back then to his advantage. By overtaking them during a thunderstorm to which they were terrified because of “gods wrath”. He used such superstitions to turn the tide in his favor. Anyway, the numbers show us that the sea is really really safe, certainly more so then the numbers on land. If their is anything to marvel at, it’s if he did in fact have control yet failed so miserably to do anything with it as to render it pointless lol.
Now missionaries in bathing suits near young women in bathing suits is a different story. But they do in fact have beaches were orthodox Jewish people go where there are few if any situations like that that even they feel safe to go to that paticular beach friending in beach and time of year.
I was at a friend’s once who had view of the beach. That morning, over breakfast, we saw about 30 orthodox Jews down at the beach (about 6am). The men and women were in different groups, about 100M apart. They were going in, dunking under the water and then back out again.
The men would strip to their underwear – knee length white bottoms and a white t-shirt (very like Gs), the women, I think, went in fully dressed to the waist and splashed water over their heads (my memory’s a bit vague).
It was amazing to watch and I wish I knew what it represented (or if it was just a day out at the beach).
SamBee wrote:Swimming in the sea is not a good idea either, unattended… you’ve got issues such as sharks, stepping on poisonous fish etc, and rip currents and undertow etc… seems like erring on the side of caution, but there is some sense there.
Stop it
In our old branch, before having a chapel, we used to baptise converts in the sea. Usually a saturday evening with the sunset. It was always an awesome spirit. Another guy got baptised by a waterfall near to where he and his (deceased) wife used to sit together.
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