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All my life in the church I was taught that when you are baptized into the ‘true’ church with the proper authority that you will recieve the Gift of the Holy Ghost. That you will then have access to the Holy Ghost as your constant companion. Those who are not members do not have this gift as a constant companion, but only on ocassion to witness the truthfulness of the lds church, or gospel. I have been out of the lds church for a little over a year now. My husband and I have become very active in our local Nazerene church. We have gotten to know the Pastor, youth pastor, leaders, and members there very well now. We have been amazed at the discernment, inspiration, and love they exhibit. They baptize by immersion and they believe they have recieved the Gift of the Holy Ghost. So, often when we attend church there we feel the Spirit strongly. They often talk about how the Holy Spirit has guided them in healings, sermons, and lessons that have benefitted the congregation. I was recently asked to lead the Wed. night Women’s Bible study new 4 week program on getting to know Christ. I told them I was not a member and did not believe all they did but I would be happy to look at the new lessons and teach what I agreed with. They said that would be fine. So, I watched the videos of these new lessons, and read the material and questions I am to present. I was amazed at the inspiration, and spirit within these videos and lessons.
So, I no longer believe the lds church has a monopoly on the Holy Ghost as a constant companion. I truly believe the people I have met in these other churches are often inspired by the Holy Spirit. Yes, I have been told that those good people outside the church have the ‘light’ of Christ’ and faith in Christ alone can do many great things. But, I really do believe these good people truly have the Gift of the Holy Ghost to guide them. I have seen healings, and love in these churches in profound ways. They sing with enthusiasm and adore Christ. I feel alot of that is lost in the lds church because so many members take their gifts, the gospel, and the church for granted. As I read so many posts about how boring church is on these forums, I recall how ritualistic and monotonomous they had become for me too. It is so easy to become complacent when you believe you are the only true church. I have no anomosity agains the lds church or Mormons. I often wish I could believe in the lds church still and do believe that God works in all churches including the lds church. I just wonder if the lds church is wrong here about them only having the “Gift of the Holy Ghost.”
I had it more powerfully BEFORE I was a member of the Church, strangely. It was as a teenager that I had it abide with me powerfully for some time…I never have achieved that in the LDS Church. So, I join with you in questioning if we have a corner on the Holy Spirit resource. You know, as I look at things the way they REALLY ARE for me, outside of what the Church teaches, but look at things on their own merits, I find myself reaching conclusions like these.
I noticed it the most while going to a Pentecostal church. I have felt it in our church. Which raises big questions for
bothchurches! Bridget, I think the “How to Stay” article touches on this topic a bit, and it seems clear to me that the Church doesn’t have a monopoly on the Spirit, but as Sambee wrote, it is felt in this church and other churches also.
The StayLDS view is that wherever you find the spirit…enjoy it. But I sense a little from your OP that you think it isn’t in the LDS church, and you’ve found it elsewhere. Is that what you are saying?
If so, I’d disagree, even while I strongly agree with you that the Spirit is alive and well in other churches and religions. The “How to Stay” article sections that seemed to remind me of your experience are:
Quote:You Became Confused About the Difference Between “The Spirit” and EmotionThroughout your membership in the church, you had been taught to equate strong emotional experiences with Mormon-centered manifestations of the Holy Ghost. At some point along the way, you had a deeply moving emotional or spiritual experience outside the context of Mormonism. This experience might have happened when you were watching a profound but fictional movie or reading a great book. It could have happened when you visited a war memorial or while attending another church. You then began to question what the difference was between a Mormon-style spiritual confirmation of “truth,” and a basic, human emotional response.
You Met Some Amazingly Righteous Non-MormonsYou gained significant exposure to some incredibly moral and spiritually inspiring non-LDS people. Perhaps they even claimed to have had the same type of spiritual “truth” assurances that you did about their own belief system. They seemed to live a more transcendent life than most of the LDS people you knew — including yourself. After much contemplation, it did not feel right to simply discard their beliefs and lifestyle as invalid or inferior while continuing to hold your own up as divinely superior.
Perhaps the second one moreso than the first…but the point is valid, and sometimes sends people into faith crisis wondering how this “experience” can seem to go against teachings of “the one true church with the Gift of the Holy Ghost”. That can lead to CogDis.
In response…
Ezra T. Benson wrote:“God is using more than one people for the accomplishment of His great and marvelous work. The Latter-day Saints cannot do it all. It is too vast, too arduous for any one people. … We have no quarrel with the Gentiles. They are our partners in a certain sense.” (Conference Report, April 1928, p. 59.)
My point is just that we should not make it seem we are bashing the church, and there is no spirit to be found in the LDS church. It is such an individual thing experienced differently by many, and sometimes life-time members are more familiar and calloused to the LDS services and that kind of Spirit that is found there and get energized by a new experience elsewhere, but we should recognize that it does exist in the LDS church for many many people. I’ve felt it. I’ve also felt it at a Buddhist temple, and other places. It makes much more sense to me that God would want to comfort all His children, not just the chosen few. That includes mormons, and non-mormons alike, IMHO.bridget_night wrote:I just wonder if the lds church is wrong here about them only having the “Gift of the Holy Ghost.”
I somewhat recently did some research to back up my position that the HG uses the Light of Christ network to communicate with HG recipients.
My argument went that it is quite ambiguous for an individual receiving a message/prompting to know if that prompting was sent by the Light of Christ itself or by the HG and the Light of Christ was merely the delivery method. This distinction can become important to some people because the L of C is available to everyone and the G of HG is only available to persons post baptism – so it would stand to reason that there would be some noticeable distinction between the effects and ministrations of the L of C and the G of HG. But since the distinction is in many cases unclear (even for the subject of the different ministrations) then it becomes impossible for us as third parties to set some objective standard to classify what another individual is feeling (whether of emotion, or of L of C, or of G of HG).
I found the quotes that I was looking for to support my position, but I also found that I had to pick and choose from among quotes that may be interpreted as contradicting this theory.
So there isn’t much doctrinal consistency about how the HG works. About the only consistent thing is that we call it the Light of Christ when it happens pre-baptism and Gift of the Holy Ghost when it happens post baptism – when for practical purposes the two are virtually indistinguishable.
Heber13 wrote:
You Met Some Amazingly Righteous Non-MormonsYou gained significant exposure to some incredibly moral and spiritually inspiring non-LDS people. Perhaps they even claimed to have had the same type of spiritual “truth” assurances that you did about their own belief system. They seemed to live a more transcendent life than most of the LDS people you knew — including yourself. After much contemplation, it did not feel right to simply discard their beliefs and lifestyle as invalid or inferior while continuing to hold your own up as divinely superior.
Perhaps the second one moreso than the first…but the point is valid, and sometimes sends people into faith crisis wondering how this “experience” can seem to go against teachings of “the one true church with the Gift of the Holy Ghost”. That can lead to CogDis.
In response…
Ezra T. Benson wrote:“God is using more than one people for the accomplishment of His great and marvelous work. The Latter-day Saints cannot do it all. It is too vast, too arduous for any one people. … We have no quarrel with the Gentiles. They are our partners in a certain sense.” (Conference Report, April 1928, p. 59.)
My point is just that we should not make it seem we are bashing the church, and there is no spirit to be found in the LDS church. It is such an individual thing experienced differently by many, and sometimes life-time members are more familiar and calloused to the LDS services and that kind of Spirit that is found there and get energized by a new experience elsewhere, but we should recognize that it does exist in the LDS church for many many people. I’ve felt it. I’ve also felt it at a Buddhist temple, and other places. It makes much more sense to me that God would want to comfort all His children, not just the chosen few. That includes mormons, and non-mormons alike, IMHO.
Hi Heber,,,these quotes were very helpful especially the one by Benson. I do believe the Holy Ghost works in the lds church but it always seemed that alot of members proclaimed that they had a monopoly on that. In fact alot of members I met did not believe there was any truth taught in other churches which surprised me. I just found an arrogance there at times. Still, I believe there are lots of good lds people and good lds teachings, but I no longer believe the lds church is the one true church.
Bridget
Quote:In fact alot of members I met did not believe there was any truth taught in other churches which surprised me.
It should have, since it’s not what the LDS Chuch itself teaches. Just saying.
I agree with you Ray. The church does not teach that. But, I still remember when I was a PR rep in my ward and worked with the Interfaith group. I took some of the young adults with me to visit some of the other churches. They seemed surprised how wonderful some of the sermons were from these other churches, but then said to me, “Well, they don’t have any truth in their churches do they?; we are the only ones with the truth, aren’t we?” So, somehow the youth grow up thinking that. Old-Timer wrote:Quote:In fact alot of members I met did not believe there was any truth taught in other churches which surprised me.
It should have, since it’s not what the LDS Church itself teaches. Just saying.
I think that we
dotend to assume and teach the following: A: We have the fullness of truth and that other churches have partial truth mixed with error.
B: Any truth that any other church has is already present in the LDS church.
C: In the unlikely event that another church has a truth that we do not have – that truth will eventually come to us in its pure form through the divinely appointed head and in the Lord’s own due time.
If anyone has studied the Tibetan Book of the Dead (which would freak most TBM endowed members out), they will know that the HG works everywhere. I have found the HG dwells with many people, in all religions. Some of the most moving spiritual experiences I’ve had have been in other churches. Arwen, good post. Just for the benefit of discussing, I’m interested in what that means to you about your experience in the LDS church and the idea of the Gift of the Holy Ghost? Not sure if you were addressing me Heber but thought I would answer it. The Holy Spirit has always meant to me that he is a manifestor of TRUTH. He is also a comforter. I have had several powerful experiences that I believe were the Holy Ghost. One was when I was soooo worried about my youngest son who is gay. I did not know he was gay at the time, but I knew something was very wrong as he had turned a 180 degrees from the person he was. He went from a optismistic happy child who loved the church and wanted to serve a mission, to someone who became angry, depressed, foul mouthed, and no longer wanted to go to church. One night I went to bed with a horrible headache and was praying so hard for my son. At 1:52 am ( I looked at the clock) I woke up feeling wonderful. My headache was gone, and I felt like love and warm water was flowing all over me. I felt such joy and peace and wished this feeling would never end. Then I heard a voice in my head say: “I am going to tell you the truth about Johnathan.” I immeadiately knew this must be the HG as I remembered he was the manifestor of all truth. This was the night we found out about what our son had been going through and why he was so self-loathing. There are numerous other experiences, but I think this one is a good example.
Here is what the prophet JS said about it:
The Prophet further directed Brigham Young as follows: ‘They can tell the Spirit of the Lord from all other spirits; it will whisper peace and joy to their souls; it will take malice, hatred, strife and all evil from their hearts; and their whole desire will be to do good, bring forth righteousness and build up the kingdom of God.’ (Manuscript History of Brigham Young: 1846–47, Historical Dept., The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, pp. 528–31.) . . .
“I testify that as we mature spiritually under the guidance of the Holy Ghost, our sense of personal worth, of belonging, and of identity increases. I further testify that I would rather have every person enjoy the Spirit of the Holy Ghost than any other association, for they will be led by that Spirit to light and truth and pure intelligence, which can carry them back into the presence of God.”
James E. Faust, “The Gift of the Holy Ghost—A Sure Compass,” Ensign, May 1989, 33
Arwen wrote:If anyone has studied the Tibetan Book of the Dead (which would freak most TBM endowed members out), they will know that the HG works everywhere. I have found the HG dwells with many people, in all religions. Some of the most moving spiritual experiences I’ve had have been in other churches.
I have a two copies of this. Which bit are you talking about?
(Bear in mind that the most famous translation is dubious and was done by someone with a westernising agenda.)
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