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yeppers…. An island the size of Australia Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
And, as we all know, Australia is entirely peopled with criminals. 
😆 (movie reference, for any of you heathers who can’t quote every line from that movie)
Old-Timer wrote:And, as we all know, Australia is entirely peopled with criminals. [emoji14] [emoji38]
(movie reference, for any of you heathers who can’t quote every line from that movie)
I served my mission there. Go figure.Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
All I can say is that there are times I have seen goodness in my life and much of the good that I hope I have been a part of has been a result of my association with the church and it’s teachings. I would like to think that goodness somehow emanates from God. I am trying to believe that JS did encounter the divine somehow and was chosen to reveal truth. Assuming this is true, I think it is very likely that he simply took his perceived mantle and authority way too far in regards to polygamy and the coercion associated therein. I feel I can still seek and hope for truth within the doctrine while rejecting certain pieces outright (priesthood ban). Perhaps if JS was a prophet, he was not chosen despite his weakness but because of it. If so, maybe we can take hope in our own imperfect sometimes miserable search for truth while we wallow through the mire of our personal and institutional weaknesses. blindsided wrote:All I can say is that there are times I have seen goodness in my life and much of the good that I hope I have been a part of has been a result of my association with the church and it’s teachings. I would like to think that goodness somehow emanates from God. I am trying to believe that JS did encounter the divine somehow and was chosen to reveal truth. Assuming this is true, I think it is very likely that he simply took his perceived mantle and authority way too far in regards to polygamy and the coercion associated therein. I feel I can still seek and hope for truth within the doctrine while rejecting certain pieces outright (priesthood ban). Perhaps if JS was a prophet, he was not chosen despite his weakness but because of it. If so, maybe we can take hope in our own imperfect sometimes miserable search for truth while we wallow through the mire of our personal and institutional weaknesses.
Well said. I think very similarly to this.
The teaching I was taught my whole life up and into adulthood that the prophet will never lead the church astray–that God will prevent it BEFORE it happens–has done serious damage. When I encountered the first errors that I could actually look at and say: “Hey, this is a mistake. The prophet did something wrong here…”…when that happened the first time,…It was as though the blood drained out of my face and I just about had a panic attack. The attack didn’t go away!…because the bottom card from the house of cards had been pulled, and the whole thing wobbled and began to implode. I found myself in such a strange place. If God is really involved, then why doesn’t HE make corrections, including correcting this false teaching about prophet infallibility that still exists out there and is taught in many place? If he is NOT really involved, what chance do I have of salvation, since I need help like always!…and if he is involved, but just sits back and doesn’t make correction, is HE a good person?…
There are these variations I have mentioned, and frankly, probably a billion more I have NOT mentioned that are or can be just as valid to others who find themselves in my situation.
It is strange that I find myself in this place where I, in a very real way, have to reinvent my own conceptions of what God is, and frankly, even what “goodness” means in the first place.
My FC events (and yes it is plural there) have led me to question basic fundamentals, not just about LDS origins or theology, but things about whether such a concept as good and evil even exists in the first place.
Me, too, Rob. I think I have successfully reinterpreted God into a deist God, and that works for me. It may not work for you. DarkJedi wrote:Me, too, Rob. I think I have successfully reinterpreted God into a deist God, and that works for me. It may not work for you.
I have a belief in both a deist conception, but also revealed. Strangely, my deist conception is more secure–grounded if you will–and stronger. Recently I was in California and saw some of the wildlife there at one of the parks. As I look at the world and the utter abundance of life, the complexity of the whole thing, I am unable to reach any other personal conclusion–there is something that set this all up. It is too complex, too broad, too diverse and too intertwined to be accidental.
Anyway, as far as the revealed approach?….that is taking a little more time.
Rob4Hope wrote:I found myself in such a strange place. If God is really involved, then why doesn’t HE make corrections, including correcting this false teaching about prophet infallibility that still exists out there and is taught in many place? If he is NOT really involved, what chance do I have of salvation, since I need help like always!…and if he is involved, but just sits back and doesn’t make correction, is HE a good person?…
Maybe it’s an issue of pacing. We might be looking for a lightning bolt out of the sky to course correct but the answer may be that god works by touching minds one at a time. It may take hundreds of years until enough individuals have been touched to work up enough manpower to steer the ship in a different direction.
We may want a god of action like Thor but god might be more inclined to apply the butterfly effect to achieve god’s ends.
Perhaps god is good in that god saw fit to help you (as an individual) make a change. I think of all the changes I’ve undergone since becoming a member all the way up to today and I see those changes as nothing short of miraculous.
Still, I’ve got to think that course correcting a tiny church over a leader complaining about two earrings in one ear takes a back seat to other pressing world matters. I don’t mean to trivialize our issues, I’m just saying that the squeaky wheel gets the grease and that there are a lot of squeaky wheels in our world.
Rob4Hope wrote:DarkJedi wrote:Me, too, Rob. I think I have successfully reinterpreted God into a deist God, and that works for me. It may not work for you.
I have a belief in both a deist conception, but also revealed. Strangely, my deist conception is more secure–grounded if you will–and stronger. Recently I was in California and saw some of the wildlife there at one of the parks. As I look at the world and the utter abundance of life, the complexity of the whole thing, I am unable to reach any other personal conclusion–there is something that set this all up. It is too complex, too broad, too diverse and too intertwined to be accidental.
Anyway, as far as the revealed approach?….that is taking a little more time.
That’s what brought me back to a belief in God, Rob. In my agnostic/near atheist time I recognized the same thing. In my mind there must be some force behind all of this, it didn’t just happen. I’m very open to the ideas of evolution and the Big Bang as ways God accomplished it, but I don’t believe it just happened – it’s too complex and too beautiful.
That said, I’m nowhere near the point of believing God knows and individually loves/cares about each one of us, but I do think He collectively cares. It also brings into question the need for a Savior and questions about what the Savior might really be and do, as well as questions about the Holy Ghost. Those are for the most part unresolved except that I do believe there is a Savior/Messiah and the only thing I can attribute that belief to is a spiritual “assurance” (I don’t think there is actually a word to describe it). I don’t know it, but I do believe it and hope for it if it is necessary. I have also pondered quite a bit about the Holy Ghost and as I look at the beliefs of other religions (especially the Abrahamic religions) I have come to believe the Holy Ghost exists because their interactions with “God” seem to more closely describe the LDS definition and theology of the Holy Ghost. However, I have not reached a conclusion (and may not in this life) about whether the Holy Ghost might actually be the sum total of God as opposed to a being a part of God. On the other hand, LDS theology may well be right – or totally wrong.
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