- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
I have a really good friend at church who I sometimes use as a sounding board for some of my issues at church. He has been wonderful and in part because of him I still go to church. I opened up with many of the issues but with very few details and asked him many times if I was doing him spiritual harm and he told me repeatedly that these things didn’t bother him. I told him about the essays and one day he asked me where they could be found. He spend several hours reading and thinking about them and within a short time frame has reached the conclusion that the church is not what it claims to be. Now he wants out. I told him to slow down and he has but now he is hurting like many of us here. I never wanted to do that to him and now I have such mixed feelings about all this. It Madge’s me sad to see him hurt so bad. He said that he can’t stop thinking about all this and he is a little angry right now at the church but doesn’t want to become one of those guys. This great man has been in many leadership callings and a great leader in the youth and seminaries programs. So did I make a mistake by talking to him in the first place? What do I do now? I am glad that he knows most of the whole story about the church but now we might loose one of my allies and friends at church. Have any of you had the same experience and accompanying sick to the stomach feelings?
My philosophy is that I don’t proactively expose people to StayLDS and any of the essays here. I assume they are traditional believers unless they indicate otherwise. I limit my questioning and concerns about commitment to the church, doctrine, etcetera to this site. This is because I don’t see StayLDS as a movement — it’s a support group for a special kind of Mormon. One that is experiencing a crisis of faith or commitment given their LDS experience. It’s for the introverts, the intellectuals, the people who have trouble coping with their LDS experience, and others. If it was a movement, we would be evangalizing the ideas espoused here — but we are not a movement, but a place where people can feel a sense of belonging they don’t get at church. I’ve never given an essay to someone in the church locally. I find its better to share it online with people here, and limit it to that.
Would I feel badly about your friend’s choice? I don’t know. Each person has to make their decisions about information life presents them. I would probably not share it with local people anymore, and use the ideas in this site to help you remain active. That is its main purpose.
church0333 wrote:now he is hurting like many of us here
church, I feel for you. That’s got to be tough. But thanks for sharing, because this is a good reminder.I have seen, first-hand, the wonderful life-changing uplift that people can get by gaining faith in the Church, and I have seen the soul-crushing negative impact on people who lose faith. I think it is best to celebrate the faith of others and to live and let live. If we experienced euphoria in our faith transition, it would be something we’d want to share. But knowing the pain that awaits those who fall puts us in a difficult situation.
I also feel for you. It’s hard to feel like I caused pain, perhaps unnecessarily, to anyone else. Having said that, you can’t undo the past, and beating yourself up over it doesn’t do any good. Focus on helping your friend now – and a part of that is sharing coping strategies that have helped people here.
Quote:Slow down. Don’t forget or discount your previous joy that was real. Don’t hurt others, especially those you love, who still believe as you used to believe. Recognize that building your own, deeply personal faith can be painful – but it also can bring you closer to God than you could have imagined previously. Remember that there is no objective, universal understanding of these things – that it’s okay to be agnostic about lots of things and rely on what you want to believe that remains unseen (true faith, in the purest sense). Etc., etc., etc.
Maybe he was going to have this happen no matter what, at some point, and maybe you can help him handle it better now than he might have been able to handle it later without you. So, do your best now to help him in his situation now. Try to help him not jump off the cliff but, instead, find a walkable way to the other side of the chasm he sees right now.
SilentDawning wrote:My philosophy is that I don’t proactively expose people to StayLDS and any of the essays here. I assume they are traditional believers unless they indicate otherwise. I limit my questioning and concerns about commitment to the church, doctrine, etcetera to this site. This is because I don’t see StayLDS as a movement — it’s a support group for a special kind of Mormon. One that is experiencing a crisis of faith or commitment given their LDS experience. It’s for the introverts, the intellectuals, the people who have trouble coping with their LDS experience, and others. If it was a movement, we would be evangalizing the ideas espoused here — but we are not a movement, but a place where people can feel a sense of belonging they don’t get at church.
I’ve never given an essay to someone in the church locally. I find its better to share it online with people here, and limit it to that.
Would I feel badly about your friend’s choice? I don’t know. Each person has to make their decisions about information life presents them. I would probably not share it with local people anymore, and use the ideas in this site to help you remain active. That is its main purpose.
I think church0333 is talking about the new essays on LDS.org
I am so sorry that you are feeling confused and guilty?.. if that is the right word? I was exposed to the history of the church not by “my own doing”.. but through people who were informing me through the healing work that I do along with a friend who left the church with an angry bang… oh and siblings who left angrily. If I didn’t want to hear it I wouldn’t have researched it more. I think the same may be true for your friend. It was his choice to research it more and find out for himself. I think we are “exposed” to things when our soul truly desires it. I am not angry at my friends for introducing these things to me, but I agree that we don’t enjoy the “dark night of the soul”, so who wants to lead others to that. But I think it can be a beautiful thing in the end. This is such a difficult time in my life, and I don’t see any silver linings YET, but at the same time it is beautiful and freeing! I admire those who had the courage to see the whole truth and not shun all of it. Maybe you could be a guide to help your friend come around and live the middle ground, if not maybe just a support as he leaves. I hope you aren’t too hard on yourself. Hugs though, b/c I have the same fear with some of my friends who sincerely ask me what I think… Those are my 2 cents that I hope you don’t mind me sharing. Also, what essays are you talking about?
May I suggest a process to point him in. 1.) he needs to see that others have put it back – point him towards people like Bushman and Givens as they offer an intelligent way to still believe without the nonsense.
2.) He needs to understand that many GA’s get it – point him to the last several conference addresses of Elder Uchtdorff and Holland as well as Elder Uchtdorf’s “what is Truth”
3.) Point him to some various views on to see some of the obstacles. I do this out of sincerity but offer these three podcasts as a good starting point.
http://mormondiscussion.podbean.com/2014/01/06/called-of-god/ ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://mormondiscussion.podbean.com/2014/01/06/called-of-god/ http://mormondiscussion.podbean.com/2013/09/20/narrowing-down-doctrine-jon-westover-and-bill-reel/ ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://mormondiscussion.podbean.com/2013/09/20/narrowing-down-doctrine-jon-westover-and-bill-reel/ http://mormondiscussion.podbean.com/2013/06/11/true-and-living-church/ ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://mormondiscussion.podbean.com/2013/06/11/true-and-living-church/ Once you have gone down the rabbit hole you need to see that others have navigated it which then gives you some sense of your agency back
This is also helpful
http://www.fairmormonsupport.org/fc101.phphttp://www.fairmormonsupport.org/fc101.php” class=”bbcode_url”> I was talking about the essays on LDS.Org. He asked me where to find them and I showed it to him on his phone. Today he told me that he is done digging any deeper because now he feels like he can leave and still maintain a degree of appreciation for the church. He is afraid that if he learn more that it will just make him angry. I think many of us know that phase well. He went to Sacrament meeting but said that he his done with the rest of the meetings. We sat in the forger durning SS and he explained that he will keep teaching seminary for the rest of the year because of the kids and he thinks that he can do that with his new understanding. When I would go to priesthood before I knew that I always had an ally in the group. Today he didn’t go and when I sat there and some of of the more TBMs were making some over the top comments (according to my new understanding) and I felt so alone. When I see other people leave that I know and respect it makes me wonder if I could do it also. For the time I will just try to make the best of it. DB, I told him about other like Bushman who have made it work, but at this point he is not interested in that. The feeling of being lied to and the fact that everything has been so hidden has really soured him. He told me today that if the the church’s foundation is built on sand then it is not worth building on. I can see the look of pain and hurt on his face. I think that this will happen more and more. I have another friend that is still attending but if the church ceased to exist tomorrow he would be happy. I think that there are going to be hard times for the church. I know that you are doing a lot to keep this from happening and I appreciate all you do but I wonder if it is too little too late for many and as my friend has said, why is it non GAs doing this when we have GAs commissioned by God himself to guide His struggling children and the talks you mentioned do not address the issues, they just acknowledge that there might be issues. church0333 wrote:DB, I told him about other like Bushman who have made it work, but at this point he is not interested in that. The feeling of being lied to and the fact that everything has been so hidden has really soured him. He told me today that if the the church’s foundation is built on sand then it is not worth building on. I can see the look of pain and hurt on his face. I think that this will happen more and more. I have another friend that is still attending but if the church ceased to exist tomorrow he would be happy. I think that there are going to be hard times for the church. I know that you are doing a lot to keep this from happening and I appreciate all you do but I wonder if it is too little too late for many and as my friend has said, why is it non GAs doing this when we have GAs commissioned by God himself to guide His struggling children and the talks you mentioned do not address the issues, they just acknowledge that there might be issues.
I hear you loud and clear. Unfortunately the loudest voices set the culture, and that culture includes many eccentric claims and false assumptions. But those exist in every age and so while the gospel on Sunday doesn’t audibly sound like the Truth, the Truth is still there, under all the debris and garbage. If he is willing to talk to someone I would love to chat.
Bill
I understand the hesitation one might feel in sharing the essays because of the impact that they might have, but I guess I feel like this is exactly the sort of information that someone in my (meaning someone that has legitimate issues with the church, but it desperately trying to reconcile them within myself) position should be able to share with any member of the church. These essays are, after all, on LDS.org. Plus, I feel like most people deserve to know the whole story. Thanks Bill, I will pass that on. I have been thinking that something is so wrong. My friend said that while he was researching the essays on LDS.org he felt like he saw viewing porn and he wanted to hide it from his family. I have noticed the same thing in my life. Looking at something negative against the church even if it comes from official church sources seems like it needs to be done in secret. What is wrong with this picture? I have been opened with my wife but it took me almost a year before I felt comfortable with sites like StayLDS and NOM and I still try to be careful with mormonthink. church0333 wrote:I have been thinking that something is so wrong. My friend said that while he was researching the essays on LDS.org he felt like he saw viewing porn and he wanted to hide it from his family. I have noticed the same thing in my life. Looking at something negative against the church even if it comes from official church sources seems like it needs to be done in secret. What is wrong with this picture? I have been opened with my wife but it took me almost a year before I felt comfortable with sites like StayLDS and NOM and I still try to be careful with mormonthink.
Church0333, think about other areas of your life where you have to evaluate things. Most people WANT to hear both sides of the story. They want the all of the information so they can make an informed decision. Why, oh why is it forbidden to apply the same good logic to the church?
MissEyre wrote:church0333 wrote:I have been thinking that something is so wrong. My friend said that while he was researching the essays on LDS.org he felt like he saw viewing porn and he wanted to hide it from his family. I have noticed the same thing in my life. Looking at something negative against the church even if it comes from official church sources seems like it needs to be done in secret. What is wrong with this picture? I have been opened with my wife but it took me almost a year before I felt comfortable with sites like StayLDS and NOM and I still try to be careful with mormonthink.
Church0333, think about other areas of your life where you have to evaluate things. Most people WANT to hear both sides of the story. They want the all of the information so they can make an informed decision.
Why, oh why is it forbidden to apply the same good logic to the church?I can think of no good reason.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.