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SP was visiting our ward and spoke from the pulpit. During his remarks, he brought up white shirts. He quoted from a recent visit from JRH. The teaching was that “we don’t want to have a uniform”, but then went on to talk about wearing a white shirt during the performance of the sacrament symbolized an acceptance of the atonement (how, I’m still uncertain). So, my interpretation: not a uniform, but basically, wrong if you don’t do it. After the meeting, I talked to the missionaries who are serving in our ward and I brought it up with a smile, since I wasn’t wearing a white shirt. They said that they had an investigator there for sacrament meeting. He seemed uncomfortable and asked the missionaries if he had done something wrong by wearing his dark blue dress shirt.
In a microcosm, I think this is illustrative of ways that the Church unnecessarily hurts itself. As stated by the SP, it’s not doctrine or even practice, but as also stated by the same SP in the same talk, it’s somehow more right to do it that way. Confusion ensues, people who don’t follow the non-teaching are positioned as less-than those who live by the non-teaching, and people the Church is trying to make feel welcome actually don’t.
I’ve never seen my SP in anything but a white shirt. But I have also never heard him say a word about it to anyone else – including many on the high council who I have never seen in a white shirt. I am fortunate to live in a ward where only half the men at most wear white shirts each Sunday and where most of the AP participating in the sacrament also don’t wear white shirts (my son included – he likes blue shirts). It saddens me that things like you describe happen. I’m going to put myself out there a bit. My stake is close enough Palmyra that we are asked to help with parking and security during the Hill Cumorah Pageant every year. Truth is I don’t mind helping do it, but I refuse. Why you ask? Because they stipulate that men must be dressed in “Sunday attire” which they define as a white shirt and tie. No white shirt and/or tie and they will turn you away. I know, it’s my only little boycott and few know why I won’t participate – but I do tell those who ask or persist in asking me to volunteer. Surprisingly (or maybe not for my ward/stake) once I tell them why they drop it.
You reminded me of an experience on my mission. I was serving in the home branch of the SP and he decided to teach the gospel essentials class one Sunday. The class was made up of 4 missionaries, an investigator that the other set of missionaries had met a few days earlier, and of course the SP as the teacher. The SP asked the investigator directly, “Where were we were before we were born?”
No answer.
The SP raises his voice and asks again, “Where were we were before we were born?”
Still no answer.
At this point the SP is shouting, “Come on, you should know this, where were we before we were born? Elders, what are you teaching him?”
That guy never came back. I don’t blame him.
With the WoW we “[adapt] to the capacity of the weak and the weakest of all saints, who are or can be called saints.” It would be nice if we did that in our dress code, our judgments, and expectations of people as well.
I wore a solid Gold shirt and blue tie on Sunday. I was literally the only man without a white shirt in the chapel, including my 2 sons with white shirts. I got comments on it also…in a joking way, about how I didn’t have on the uniform, I was non-conformist, and I was trying to stick out. I just laughed and played along. Whatev. I am wearing pink the next week I’m at church (won’t be for 3 weeks).
I’ll probably keep wearing colored shirts until someone doesn’t say anything. Then I’ll go back to white. Maybe an investigator will come and feel more comfortable.
A month or so ago an female investigator came with the sister missionaries. The woman wore a fantastic pantsuit. The minute the meeting was over I bee-lined over to her and told her how much I loved her outfit. I sister’s were uncertain what to say. I was clearly off base in my pants support but I was the only person genuinely talking to the guest in the building. Hmm, what to do. OON
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In a microcosm, I think this is illustrative of ways that the Church unnecessarily hurts itselfI we’re going to just keep doing it. Earrings, Tattoo’s, pants, white shirts.
Do you know the scripture, “For it shall be given you in the very hour, yea, in the very moment, what ye shall say”? I don’t think that refers to every moment in all situations, as some members and leaders believe. Sometimes, I really wish the church would emphasize the importance of tact, rhetoric, and empathy. It’s really important, whenever possible, to think before you speak.
I really cringe at some of the things I hear said at the pulpit or in class sometimes. I wonder, do these people not stop to think how that sounds to investigators? It’s almost like people forget there is anything other than TBM’s out in the audience. I really liked my ward when it came to this, it was an eclectic group of people. Several people with tattoo’s, people with hair dyed crazy colors, people wearing jeans with their dress shirts, etc. I figured at least investigators would come in and see we aren’t all these uniform people cut from the same mold and it be easier to feel accepted. I doubt you see much of that, if any at all, if you double the average income of the ward but I prefer it the way it was.
dande48 wrote:Sometimes, I really wish the church would emphasize the importance of tact, rhetoric, and empathy. It’s really important, whenever possible, to think before you speak.
Yes!! Well said. I agree and make sure I take that to heart.
unsure wrote:I wonder, do these people not stop to think how that sounds to investigators? It’s almost like people forget there is anything other than TBM’s out in the audience.
I agree. The only thing I would point out…is that investigators are coming to search for something new in their lives, and be a part of something. I do think there is value in the church having something to stand for that makes others change to be a part of it, so they can have faith that it is making a difference in their lives. The church message would just be very different if it was “come as you are and all are fine the way you are now”. I feel the church wants to have rules and standards to try to help people. But…as Uchtdorf taught us…some gospel principles get lost in a labyrinth of “good ideas”.
To some investigators, they love hearing the things they can do different, and wearing white shirts. Some investigators will feel offended by some of those things. It depends on where their heart is.
And it is kind of a bummer we only celebrate the one as “golden” or “prepared”, and we don’t really have a way as a church to support those that don’t find all the conformity good for them.
My point is that we can’t assume all investigators don’t like hearing some of those messages. But we should not make the mistake in thinking all should.
On Own Now wrote:In a microcosm, I think this is illustrative of ways that the Church unnecessarily hurts itself. As stated by the SP, it’s not doctrine or even practice, but as also stated by the same SP in the same talk, it’s somehow more right to do it that way. Confusion ensues, people who don’t follow the non-teaching are positioned as less-than those who live by the non-teaching, and people the Church is trying to make feel welcome actually don’t.
I think often of my tag line below – preachers erring by trying to talk people into belief. (Or practice, clothing, etc.) I don’t know when and how it happened, but somewhere between my parents’ attraction and conversion to the church and today we’ve settled too heavily on preaching and away from radiating happiness. My parents wanted to be the happy people they saw at church. And consciously or unconsciously they would follow their example. I feel now like the church almost says, Dress this way, do this thing, and you will be happy. It’s backwards.
We have a PH member in our ward who wears very distinctive suits & ties. My favorite suit is purple. Almost florescent. I try to compliment him on a regular basis. He always makes me smile. It’s not just the clothes. It’s the attitude.
Something that floated across the bloggernacle a while back caught my eye. Someone was doing research along the lines of “Just who was this Paul H. Dunn guy anyway?” and went back to watch some of his talks. While watching one of Dunn’s talks during a priesthood session of general conference they made an observation. Here’s a link to the video: https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1972/04/know-thyself-control-thyself-give-thyself?lang=eng ” class=”bbcode_url”> https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1972/04/know-thyself-control-thyself-give-thyself?lang=eng There are several crowd shots, here’s a still image of the 1:58 minute mark:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/rQtGT7b.png [/img] 3:08 mark:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/kF3HLq9.png [/img] There are others. This is a priesthood session. Notice anything different?
Very enlightening. Interesting the change in 44 years. Beautiful Bro. Nibbler. Just beautiful. When I was growing up we often took Easter/Christmas/Birthday photo’s for my Grandparents. White shirts were rarely there. Even at baptism. As a teen girl, we always checked out the Priests to see who was wearing what. I grew up in a stylish ward. White shirts were actually kind of the lower class shirt. Pink’s, pastel blues, purple’s were in. Big hair for girls was also in but that’s another story, with other GC shots.
When you show the fashions in those still shots… …it makes me want to wear white shirts all the time now. And narrow ties. sheesh!
Maybe the brethren were tired of the bad fashion sense priesthood holders have…and the bad styles were distracting the speakers at the pulpit!
:silent: Quote:Priesthood correlation committee: How can we get that guy in the purple vest to stop embarrassing us as mormons?
Response: White shirts for all!! And no facial hair!
I wear a mix of colors, including white. I badically just cycle through my dress shirts, and they are about 2:1 non-white. Of course, I also have worn a polo shirt to High Council meetings, especially when I lived in the Nauvoo Stake and went straight from work. 16 people in white shirts, ties, and suit coats – and me in a polo shirt. When I was released (because I was moving), multiple people thanked me for bringing a different perspective to the group – and when the Stake Presidency was reorganized, all three new members were among that group. I love the symbolism of tying the sacrament to baptism by wearing white in the
administrationof it – but even Elder Holland said that narrow practice wasn’t necessary in all cases, and even he never expanded it to all church meetings. That is a cultural aspect of local Pharisees trying to imitate the global leaders – and it would be wonderful to see an apostle speak in General Conference wearing a non-white shirt.
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