The M word

[Anonymous]

cwald wrote:

Are you sure? Perhaps these may be gross overstatements of years and years of LDS conditioning, and/or puritan conditioning?

All thing in moderation. All things in moderation.

I’m positive. Like a said, I think the church, for the most part, is incappable of addressing this growing issue right now. My studies and involvment with it have been in Non-LDS, non-Christian atmostpheres with people who truly want to get rid of this addiction. Even if I didn’t believe in God or the Church, I would not want that to be a part of my life anymore. I can testify first hand of the destructiveness that it caused to my life and those around me, not to mention models, etc. Everything we do has a rippling effect. The biggest fallacy people have about M word is that it doesn’t hurt anyone. They’re wrong. Every action we take in our lives has consequences and affects our bodies. That one, has the tendency to affect it in a negative way.

Let me add “all things in moderation, in their right place.” Sex between a man and wife can be very very constructive.

[Anonymous]

Yes, I’m sure there are those who are addicted and it’s had a adverse affect in their lives. But does that mean it’s bad for everyone, and should be considered a wicked bain on society? I mean, I get it in the LDS church — anything that can cause addition is forbidden — alcohol, tobacco, even caffeine.

You know many folks that M has been a negative force in their lives. Me too — but I also know many others who it has not affected their lives or marriage etc, and would probably even argue that it has been a positive in their lives, — especially after they got over the guilt and shame that the LDS church, and all religions, have conditioned them to believe that it is so wrong, immoral and “dirty.” There are some who argue that it helps one not commit a grosser or more serious transgression?

I don’t think this is a “black and white issue” —- or an “all right, all wrong issue.”

PS —

Quote:

Let me add “all things in moderation, in their right place.” Sex between a man and wife can be very very constructive.

Perhaps M between man and wife could be very very constructive as well? Just a thouht.

[Anonymous]

acarlton — thanks for sharing all that. It certainly helps to add perspective to these kinds of discussions and makes it less of an academic exercise (if it ever was).

You raise an excellent point, though I’m not sure what to make of it. Is there something about behaviour that can potentially become addicitive that makes it inherently ‘sinful’?

[Anonymous]

doug wrote:

Is there something about behaviour that can potentially become addicitive that makes it inherently ‘sinful’?

+1

[Anonymous]

cwald wrote:

doug wrote:

Is there something about behaviour that can potentially become addicitive that makes it inherently ‘sinful’?

+1

Then there’s the approach that there is no “sin” (yeah, I guess one of the Book of Mormon anti-Christ’s already did that one) and that everything is simply helpful or unhelpful toward our happiness and enlightenment/awakening.

Hmm. I guess it’s better, rather than saying there is no sin, to say perhaps the correct meaning of “sin” is really “misdirection”, not “staining”. It’s not that we “have sinned and come short of the glory of God”, but that we “have sinned and are facing askew of God.” Simply turn. There’s God. Problem solved.

[Anonymous]

acarlton wrote:

cwald wrote:

Are you sure? Perhaps these may be gross overstatements of years and years of LDS conditioning, and/or puritan conditioning? All things in moderation.

I’m positive….I think the church, for the most part, is incappable of addressing this growing issue right now. My studies and involvment with it have been in Non-LDS, non-Christian atmostpheres with people who truly want to get rid of this addiction. Even if I didn’t believe in God or the Church, I would not want that to be a part of my life anymore. I can testify first hand of the destructiveness that it caused to my life and those around me…The biggest fallacy people have about M word is that it doesn’t hurt anyone. They’re wrong. Every action we take in our lives has consequences and affects our bodies. That one, has the tendency to affect it in a negative way.

I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion but personally I think that calling anyone that doesn’t want to stop with the masturbation or porn habits an addict is pure hype with no basis in reality. I’m not saying there aren’t any real sex addicts that have an unhealthy obsession with this kind of thing but not everyone that drinks is an alcoholic and not everyone that looks at porn once in a while is an “addict” either; in fact, I suspect that very few are really addicted to this in an unhealthy way. Based on the same logic (assuming the worst cases apply to the majority), you could also claim that everyone is addicted to food because some people have unhealthy eating habits or that no one should ever gamble simply because a relative few compulsively gamble too much.

My guess is that the real origin of this whole “porn addiction” myth is that many wives don’t approve of porn so their husbands try to stop looking at it but some of them eventually end up doing it again so then their wives freak out about it. Then we react to this situation by demonizing porn even more and blaming men for not being able to control themselves when the real question is why should they and what harm will it really do if they don’t? The only tangible negative consequence I see in most cases is wives not liking it. However, the problem is that if someone is single or their wife doesn’t really care that much about it then it looks to me like no real harm will ever be done by porn in many cases like this. This leads me to believe that in reality this “problem” is mostly imaginary and most of the time it really only exists in peoples’ minds simply because they let it bother them and have been heavily influenced by prudish cultural conditioning.

[Anonymous]

p.s. folks, thanks for using the abbreviations. I’m currently on a public library computer, which would block anything which the net nanny thinks is offensive. Also, don’t want to be mistaken for a P site!

[Anonymous]

Thanks, Sam, for reminding me of those issues. I forget sometimes. I’ll use the abbreviations from now on.

[Anonymous]

Just a thought on acarlton’s position. I think you really need to separate M and P from one another. I don’t see Ming as hurting anyone most of the time. Maybe there would be some issues that come up in a marriage where the spouse was unaware that the other spouse was Ming and wanted to know why, but I just don’t see how Ming hurts anyone otherwise. However, when P comes into the picture I think there can be some real problems. P can create such an unrealistic expectation of what sex is and can be. There is no love or close emotional connection in P. It becomes very easy to think that all women should look like the women in the films who have had various procedures done. It becomes very easy to think that all of the activities in the films are what everybody wants to do. I believe that these two items can have a very negative effect on a relationship.

M and P unfortunately seem to be inseparable a lot of the time because looking at P certainly creates a desire to release that sexual tension. But I think M in and of itself is not a bad thing at all and creating all the guilt and shame around it has a very negative impact on a persons general outlook on sexuality.

[Anonymous]

I’d agree with that Trudge. One does not necessarily go with the other.

True, they are related, but that’s like the fallacy of connecting heroin use with drinking alcohol. They are both there for similar reasons, but one is less addictive and less extreme.

Quote:

“It becomes very easy to think that all women should look like the women in the films who have had various procedures done.

“

Actually that’s something I’ve always found very off-putting. Who’d want to look like Pamela Anderson? I don’t like that look and don’t find myself attracted to it at all!

[Anonymous]

Wow, This is more entertaining than SNL(just read the entire thread). My wife keeps coming in asking, “What are you laughing at?” The standard answer for the last month had been cwald(a sincere thanks), but doug and a few others are confederate on this thread!

On a serious note, My dad had a severe mental breakdown when he was a senior in high school. He told me about it, I think, to help me not fall into the same trap. I cannot over emphasize how bad it was. He was institutionalized for a short time after and was not allowed to serve a mission etc. because of this. He told me the reason was that he felt so guilty and so sinful because, as he said, “Seminary presidents don’t masturbate.”

Where was the idea placed in his mind so firmly that it was so terrible and so wrong, that he nearly took his own life that night? IMO It’s not the 99 boys out of 100 that M. that scare me, Its the one that doesn’t, there is something wrong there! IMO. Okay, that very, very small group of boys that doesn’t M. are probably just fine(not going to judge unrighteous). But IMO as many have already mentioned on this thread, the most damaging thing for most of these boys is likely the guilt, the going to hell feelings, feeling like I’m a freak because I M.

My real concern regarding this thread is, will I ever be able to hear the phrase, “All things in Moderation” without laughing? :lolno:

We should talk more about addiction, its gotten a rap. IMO We are all addicted to a number of things–different thread….

f4h1

[Anonymous]

Well, don’t blame me f4h1 — Orson is the one who started the who “moderation in all things” on this thread. 🙂

Interesting story about your Dad. The church culture has done a ton of damage to some people in regards to sexuality. I just hope the positives outweighs the negatives?????

[Anonymous]

When dealing with M. I think that feeling guilty is perhaps the most destructive aspect for most people. Guilt is an interesting concept for me.

If the source of guilt were God, then wouldn’t equal sin produce equal guilt for all of his children? For example..

If a Jehovah Witness accepts blood in the ER to save their life, they feel guilt, shame, and as one JW told me, “Your saving yourself now, but your going to hell later!” etc. Other people receive blood all the time, and If you asked them about feeling guilty about it, they reply, “Why would I feel guilty?”

A Seventh-day-Adventist goes bowling on Saturday and feels guilty, other people bowl on Saturday all the time guilt-free.

If a Mormon drinks a cup of coffee he/she may feel great guilt, a need to confess to the Bishop and surrender their TR, punish them self for the sin by reading “The miracle of forgiveness” (please, anything but that). Other people, including myself, enjoy their cup or two of coffee and feel great!!!!! A complete absences of guilt.

Equal actions for different people don’t produce equal guilt.

What about the guilt of masturbation? Is it a learned, self imposed guilt trip?

P.S. Is M. one of those words you should always capitalize? Orson, a still, small, alien voce told me that you are the authority on the subject.

f4h1

[Anonymous]

Proper nouns are capitalized. Therefore, M. should be capitalized only if it’s done properly.

[Anonymous]

Okay, now I’m in tears, 😆 😆 😆

Thanks Ray

[Author]

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