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Old-Timer wrote:
Proper nouns are capitalized. Therefore, M. should be capitalized only if it’s done properly.
Can you elaborate please?
🙂 The reason it’s capitalised is because it’s an abbreviation. I don’t really want to use the full word, because I know from past experience that it will turn up on search engines if people are looking for this site, that’s not the idea. Quote:A Seventh-day-Adventist goes bowling on Saturday and feels guilty, other people bowl on Saturday all the time guilt-free.
Actually on this score, I believe the Seventh Day Adventists are right, and the majority of Christians are wrong. Sabbath is Saturday (or Friday sundown to Saturday sundown to be precise) The idea that Sunday should be the sabbath is not Biblical and stands on very shaky ground indeed.
Fatherof4husbandof1 wrote:But IMO as many have already mentioned on this thread, the most damaging thing for most of these boys is likely the guilt, the going to hell feelings, feeling like I’m a freak because I M.
There is at least one
caseIn my limited experience, this is an issue that affects certain personality types, if you will, or if you prefer, people with certain emotional predispositions. The church has a message to put forward, and given that, I can hardly blame it for the manner in which it presents it: uniformly, and without regard to the listener’s mental/emotional state. For a majorty of those young men, this is not a problem since they basically ignore it anyway, or at least they don’t take it so seriously — and so the heat gets turned up. The few that are disposed to be overy-sensitive to this kind of talk suffer painfully as a result. So my problem is with the message itself: that this is absolutely the word of God, black and white, no exceptions, hellfire and damnation, etc.
I did not find it odd that the aforementioned Grandfather was asked about M in a temple interview. Where else could the counselor have that privacy? Grandfather has been around a while and I’m sure the bpric counselor just wanted some pointers. I agree with DA about the addiction issue. That word is thrown around frivolously in church settings, but I understand it’s a semantic misunderstanding. P addictions! In my experience, most LDS men have looked at P, but don’t really have P habits, much less addictions. Of those that do have habits, few have true addictions. This topic discussed ad naseum at the Lds sexuality site.
Quote:Can you elaborate please?
No thank you. Some things have to be learned on your own.
😳 doug wrote:Fatherof4husbandof1 wrote:But IMO as many have already mentioned on this thread, the most damaging thing for most of these boys is likely the guilt, the going to hell feelings, feeling like I’m a freak because I M.
There is at least one
caseIn my limited experience, this is an issue that affects certain personality types, if you will, or if you prefer, people with certain emotional predispositions. The church has a message to put forward, and given that, I can hardly blame it for the manner in which it presents it: uniformly, and without regard to the listener’s mental/emotional state. For a majorty of those young men, this is not a problem since they basically ignore it anyway, or at least they don’t take it so seriously — and so the heat gets turned up. The few that are disposed to be overy-sensitive to this kind of talk suffer painfully as a result. So my problem is with the message itself: that this is absolutely the word of God, black and white, no exceptions, hellfire and damnation, etc.
For want of better phrasing, there is a period in our lives, when our bodies start changing radically as do our feelings. I think if someone has been sheltered from these things, you don’t know what the heck is happening. In fact, M could well be committed in ignorance of what it is. Also, when men are in their teens, they are extremely sexual, although they lack the emotional maturity to deal with other aspects of it.
SamBee wrote:doug wrote:Fatherof4husbandof1 wrote:But IMO as many have already mentioned on this thread, the most damaging thing for most of these boys is likely the guilt, the going to hell feelings, feeling like I’m a freak because I M.
There is at least one
caseIn my limited experience, this is an issue that affects certain personality types, if you will, or if you prefer, people with certain emotional predispositions. The church has a message to put forward, and given that, I can hardly blame it for the manner in which it presents it: uniformly, and without regard to the listener’s mental/emotional state. For a majorty of those young men, this is not a problem since they basically ignore it anyway, or at least they don’t take it so seriously — and so the heat gets turned up. The few that are disposed to be overy-sensitive to this kind of talk suffer painfully as a result. So my problem is with the message itself: that this is absolutely the word of God, black and white, no exceptions, hellfire and damnation, etc.
For want of better phrasing, there is a period in our lives, when our bodies start changing radically as do our feelings. I think if someone has been sheltered from these things, you don’t know what the heck is happening. In fact, M could well be committed in ignorance of what it is. Also, when men are in their teens, they are extremely sexual, although they lack the emotional maturity to deal with other aspects of it.
Just to be clear, when I say “this issue”, I’m not referring to M (or any other particular behaviour) but to the guilt associated with those behaviours that results from constantly being encouraged to feel that way (guilty) at church. Just last week a dear friend attending a church-sponsored university had to pause (again) in his life because of a HC speaker in SM whose message was, essentially, “if you think you might be guilty (of sin), you probably are”, with explicit encouragement to speak to a priesthood leader about it.
👿 Now that I think about it, ‘SM’ is sometimes a pretty apt abbreviation for sacrament meeting.
Quote:“if you think you might be guilty (of ‘sin’), you probably are”.
🙄 🙄 (Sometimes, there simply are no words . . .):wtf: 
Eeech!!! That makes Calvinism look mild. Let’s remember Romans 3:23 here – “For
allhave sinned, and come short of the glory of God” – yes, that’s EVERYBODY, including that aforementioned HC speaker! Without it we wouldn’t need the atonement. Old-Timer wrote:Quote:“if you think you might be guilty (of ‘sin’), you probably are”.
🙄 🙄 (Sometimes, there simply are no words . . .):wtf: This, I believe, is a philosophy that encourages people to invent new rules to add to the rules they already have to live by. This is why Coca-cola is still frowned on by many mormons. I’m sure many bishops could recall many people who came in broken-hearted to confess something that isn’t even bad. Just because you feel guilty about something doesn’t mean its bad.
Some people just have a hyper-active guilt reflex.
Quote:amertune
Just because you feel guilty about something doesn’t mean it’s bad.
I agree. There are hundreds of examples of people feeling guilty because of what they were taught!
Example..
A JW accepts blood to save his life = big guilt trip
A Seventh-day Adventist plays on Saturday = going to hell
A Jew sneaks a piece of bacon at the Denny’s breakfast bar = Googleguilt
A Pentecostal lady cuts her hair = GUILT GUILT GUILT
😈 😈 😈 f4h1
You forgot one: A Catholic wakes up in the morning.
😆 (told to me by a Catholic friend)Old-Timer wrote:You forgot one:
A Catholic wakes up in the morning.
😆 (told to me by a Catholic friend)
:clap: Ray gets a nomination for line of day!husband of 1 father of 4 wrote Quote:A Seventh-day Adventist plays on Saturday = going to hell
Actually the seventh Day adventists have a good stance on M. They say it is necessary, healthy, and necessary to avoid mental problems.
I would have to admit that M is very addicting. Also, I realize the change of Church Policy on it. According to Spencer W. Kimball in Faith Precedes the Miracle, (I paraphrase) that a young men who is found doing this is not worthy to go on a mission. However, the practice in the mission was that you could not be sent home for M. The counsel was to “cage the tiger.” I had a bishop tell me once that it is better to do the M than to get a girl PG.
The only thing I didn’t like is when two-bishops ago asked me to read the Boyd K. Packer Talk on To the Young Men. Basically my Bishop wanted me to live the same standard a 12-18 year old TBM who has never had sexual relations. Then, I was counseled to exercise. This was wrong, since exercise increases testosterone which increases the urge. As a divorced man, who had experienced sex, I found myself going back to my wife (since masturbation was evil), but to a certain extent (sex with a wife I was separated from would become fornication according to Brigham Young, so I guess you just go with the lesser of two evils.
Loved the thread ya all, Many youth have gone through torment because of the Church policy on M.
On the guilt topic. My husband was having real issues with guilt feelings. It was becoming debilitating. This wasn’t the fault of church or church leaders and medication has helped tremendously. I believe that if someone is having problems with overwhelming guilt they should see a doctor and not their bishop. If after being on medication for an appropriate amount of time if they still have issues then maybe a chat with the bishop would be good.
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