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I mentioned in another thread that I believe, ultimately, there is no objective way to prove how life began and the nature of God. It can’t be done by one person in a way that will satisfy everyone else as being objective evidence. It really is impossible. That’s why I end up believing every single person simply has to choose in the end their own individual starting point – belief in some kind of higher, directed power / purpose or belief in its absence. Once that foundational reference point is established, the details of one’s “faith” (what one believes in the absence of objective proof) can be fleshed into existence. Until that foundational reference point is etablished (and the underlying assumption recognized and accepted), I believe one’s perspective is not truly one’s own.
I’m not saying anyone has to struggle to establish that foundation. Many do with no struggle. They simply believe or don’t believe. What I’m saying is that those who never question and construct are participating in a collective, communal faith – rather than an individual one.
I also am not saying that an individual one is “better” or “higher” than a collective, communal one. What I’m saying is that each can be “true” or “right” or “correct” or “proper” for differing individuals – that just because I need an individual one doesn’t mean my wife or my children will need it. The communal one might be fine for them. That’s not my call to make; it is theirs.
Finally, it is important to realize that the struggle for those who must pursue individual faith is fitting into the social constructions built by those who pursue a collective, communal faith. “Religion”, at it core, is a collective, communal endeavor – and it works wonderfully for those who are inclined to communal faith. Those who are more naturally geared to individual exploration NEVER have “fit in” in the established community. They always have been explorers and dreamers and status quo challengers.
However, I believe NEITHER orientaion is universally “right” – that each is individually “right”. Letting go of the need to be right in comparison to others, and letting go of the need for others to be wrong in comparison to yourself, is a very liberating experience – no matter one’s ultimate conclusion. For those who pursue individual faith, accepting their own individual search while participating in the collective faith of their community can be a tremendous challenge – but it has been the most rewarding thing I personally have ever experienced. Maintaining my own journey outside of the community but “losing myself” inside my community has been something I wouldn’t trade for anything – and I believe that paradox is what lies at the heart of the concept of an all-powerful Being uttering the otherwise incomprehensible words:
“Behold, this is my work and my glory – to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.”
This is an interesting post, Ray. Communal faith works for some, others need individual exploration and don’t “fit” into the religion. To each his/her own. Is that summed correctly? How then do you feel about baptism? Is that a requirement only for those with communal faith, and God will provide for the individuals? Are you saying there are no universal truths…only truths to each individual depending on their starting point frame of reference?
Interesting repsonse, Heber. I think we learn a lot from others’ reading of our posts – sometimes as much from that as from the writing of them. That certainly is the case with your questions. I will try to tackle your comment one point at a time: 1) Communal faith works for some, others need individual exploration and don’t “fit” into the religion.
A) I would say that communal faith works “naturally” for some, and that others need individual exploration (“as well”, I think ideally) and don’t fit “naturally” into organized religion.
2) To each his/her own.
A) Actually, that is not what I meant. I meant that each person needs to try to recognize their “natural” tendency and work to develop / integrate into the other “natural” tendency. I think, for example, that for those who are natural explorers, it is essential to learn how to interact within a communal faith in order to become more “perfect” – meaning “whole, complete, fully developed” as it is used in Matthew 5:48. Just as faith without works is dead (not alive and progressing), being alone (and works without faith is dead, being alone), I think individual exploration without communal faith also is dead, being alone. I also think that communal faith without individual exploration is limiting, being alone, but I’m not sure it is “dead”in quite the same way – since many can be “fed” in a community without extensive exploration.
2) How then do you feel about baptism? Is that a requirement only for those with communal faith, and God will provide for the individuals?
A) At the meta-level, I might say that “God will provide for the individuals” – but I view baptism much like ANY outward symbol of communal commitment. I view it as absolutely necessary to have something that idenitifies believers and allows people to commit publicly to a community; I just don’t believe there is anything intrinsically special about baptism – other than the fact that it has been imbued with special meaning and symbolism. The symbolism is important to me; the exact nature of the manifestation of the symbolism is not. So, circumcision can become baptism can become whatever – as long as the symbolism remains.
2) Are you saying there are no universal truths…only truths to each individual depending on their starting point frame of reference?
A) Absolutely not – in the purest sense. I do believe that there are absolute, universal truths. I just believe that we can never be sure logically what they are, so we are left to strive to undersrtand them as well as we can from our own point of references. My main point is that we can’t become arrogant in a conviction that we know it all – and that we must keep the door open to learn from ANYONE, even the most vile SOB’s in human history. Once we close our minds a litle, we have closed our minds a lot, imo.
I believe that last answer is pure Mormonism, even if it is not modeled by the membership as a whole.
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