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Scholars who produced the Austin Institute’s newly released Relationships in America interviewed 15,000 people, and by most measures of belief and practice, the winner is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
How do they do it?
Quote:Mormons do not convert by preaching. They do help ensure uniformity in what their church teaches by centralizing curriculum and materials, but these materials are used mostly to “preach to the converted.” Instead they focus on building social bonds, inviting the former stranger into a network of ever-growing belonging, before broaching theology or ideology. Preach incessantly to those in your pews, but reach out with love, affection, Boy Scouts, and practical help to the unconverted.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/394510/mormon-advantage-maggie-gallagher I love that they recognize that old principle of chastity is of value today not only for the individuals, but for our nation. I fear a march straight into disaster as our secular society opens its arms to any and all sexual expressions. One of the things I really am grateful to the Church for is its teachings about family, and such.
I’m not quite sure what I think about preaching to the converted and loving the stranger. Comments? Observations?
Thanks for the link. Quote:Among regular churchgoers (three times a month or more), 57 percent of evangelicals had premarital sex with their future spouse, as did 64 percent of traditional Catholics, and 66 percent of fundamentalist Protestants. Just 14 percent of Mormons did.
3 words… Temple Marriage Interview.
DW and I had a very hard time keeping our hands off of each other. The prospect of not getting married in the temple definately gave us a big red boundary.
I think this is very much the purpose of church on Sunday…the weekly affirmation of the faith. Preaching to the converted, to keep them in the fold. I think it is a big reason why a different paradigm, a different slant or viewpoint, leaves the TBM crowd with little to respond with, as if the script is broken and they aren’t ready for that.
In case anyone is wondering, the Mormons come out on top (no pun intended) in answering the question Quote:Who is doing a better job at sustaining a marriage culture?
I would agree that the church does a good job of that. The TR interview, the emphasis on families, the teaching on Sunday, all contribute, as does encouraging marriage in the church to other committed Mormons, as does the theology of husbands and wives needing each other for salvation.
But there are also casualties. If you asked “who is doing a better job of accepting single people, and people with SSA? Who does the best job of including non-member family? You might get a different answer. And then, there is the cost of people staying in marriages in which it would be better for the kids, and the long-term well being of certain members of the marriage to be divorced and remarried.
Not to besmirch the results of the study. I believe that any strategy — in business, church, theology — has its casualties as you have to say “no” to certain things in order to stay focused on the strategy. So yes, our church may do a better job of creating a marriage culture. And for many, it works well, but there are casualties at the side of the road, and sadly, I’m one of them on two counts.
Excellent point, SD. I hope dearly we can find a way to keep what we do well and add many things we are not doing well now.
I think if they got rid of the one year penalty, that would help bring balance. To me, this is certainly within their power, and would not cause membership loss or hurt testimonies — we all know it is defunct in parts of the world where temple marriages are not considered legal. I think if church leaders would steer clear of talks that imply one should stay married at all costs, that would also help. While they certainly don’t want to encourage divorce (I understand that), if they stopped implying that marriages should be saved at all costs that would help. That was the message many of us received from the pulpit years ago. And it’s part of the LDS culture that divorced people are not as good — denied certain callings, administrative hoops for remarriage, etcetera.
I am torn about pre-marital sex. I certainly think casual sex isn’t good for the spirit or society. But I’m torn about whether it’s appropo when planning to marry someone for the next 60 years — I tend to think no. I wish there was a foolproof way of determining sexual compatibility before marriage, without breaking the law of chastity. If there was a medical way of determining if a partner has the ability to perform the act, with surety, that might be of value to people who learning on their wedding night they have a spouse with sexual dysfunction — someone who had it all along and didn’t know.
Marriages that are dysfunctional sexually can threaten spouse’s very salvation. Granted, these problems often develop with age, and that’s the luck of the draw. Sickness and dysfunction can develop at any time, but when it’s a problem from the get-go, I think it’s something each spouse owes to themself and their partner to unearth and potentially accept or reject as something they are prepared to live with.
SilentDawning wrote:I think if they got rid of the one year penalty, that would help bring balance. To me, this is certainly within their power, and would not cause membership loss or hurt testimonies — we all know it is defunct in parts of the world where temple marriages are not considered legal.
I think if church leaders would steer clear of talks that imply one should stay married at all costs, that would also help. While they certainly don’t want to encourage divorce (I understand that), if they stopped implying that marriages should be saved at all costs that would help. That was the message many of us received from the pulpit years ago. And it’s part of the LDS culture that divorced people are not as good — denied certain callings, administrative hoops for remarriage, etcetera.
I am torn about pre-marital sex. I certainly think casual sex isn’t good for the spirit or society. But I’m torn about whether it’s appropo when planning to marry someone for the next 60 years — I tend to think no. I wish there was a foolproof way of determining sexual compatibility before marriage, without breaking the law of chastity. If there was a medical way of determining if a partner has the ability to perform the act, with surety, that might be of value to people who learning on their wedding night they have a spouse with sexual dysfunction — someone who had it all along and didn’t know.
Marriages that are dysfunctional sexually can threaten spouse’s very salvation. Granted, these problems often develop with age, and that’s the luck of the draw. Sickness and dysfunction can develop at any time, but when it’s a problem from the get-go, I think it’s something each spouse owes to themself and their partner to unearth and potentially accept or reject as something they are prepared to live with.
I think our leaders also need to start placing less emphasis on returned missionaries getting married right away. I understand why (it’s a lot easier to obey the law of chastity when you’re married) but I also think it sometimes sends a “marriage before all else” message when sometimes that’s the last thing an individual needs at that point – and some simply are not ready.
I guess time will tell how much of an advantage this really is or not. Personally I see this as a sign that the LDS Church is being left behind by the mainstream popular culture even more than other conservative Christians. If the Amish are better at resisting any changes to their traditional way of life than other religious groups that doesn’t mean they are better in general or that they will ever be able to compete with the alternatives on a large scale. The LDS Church doesn’t just do a relatively good job of getting long-time active members to abstain from sex before marriage; they also do an effective job of getting any Church members that already had sex before they were married (or that drink or smoke) to generally stay away from church, whether intentionally or not, so this basically creates an exaggerated illusion of strict compliance compared to other churches. This report already says that they only included Church members that attend church an average of 3 times or more per month so that would automatically leave out a majority of the 15 million Mormons the Church continues to count and if less active members were included in surveys like this I suspect the overall results would be much closer to average. To me the fact that people can attend some of these other churches without feeling like they need to believe or perfectly practice everything that is preached is actually an advantage compared to the LDS Church. For example, maybe some Catholics that aren’t very religious will have grandchildren that get more out of the Catholic Church than they did but at this point the LDS Church would have to convert many people in situations like this as if their inactive parents or grandparents were never Mormon.
SilentDawning wrote:I wish there was a foolproof way of determining sexual compatibility before marriage, without breaking the law of chastity.
I have heard many therapist say that even for those that have sex before marriage that once they are married, things change. I remember a story about a (non-member) couple that were sexually active before marriage and this included lots of oral sex. After they were married a while one of them decided they didn’t like oral sex anymore and the other was very upset over the change.
I do see marriage as a place to push us and grind off our rough edges, but it is hard when certain core needs just are not being meet and no attempt is taken to try and correct this. My whole faith crisis was kicked off by reading dozens of marriage books and trying to take their advice. After decades of prayer and no improvements I felt spiritually ignored, then I listened to a MormonStories podcast about LDS marriages – and a few clicks after that I was on the slippery slope and gaining momentum.
LookingHard wrote:things change.
Exactly!! Things will change. That is the constant.
DevilsAdvocate wrote:I guess time will tell how much of an advantage this really is or not. Personally I see this as a sign that the LDS Church is being left behind by the mainstream popular culture even more than other conservative Christians. If the Amish are better at resisting any changes to their traditional way of life that doesn’t mean they are better in general or that they will ever be able to complete with the alternatives on a large scale. The LDS Church doesn’t just do a relatively good job of getting long-time active members to abstain from sex before marriage; they also do an effective job of getting any Church members that already had sex before they were married (or that drink or smoke) to generally stay away from church, whether intentionally or not, so this basically creates an exaggerated illusion of success compared to other churches.
This report already says that they only included Church members that attend church an average of 3 times or more per month so that would automatically leave out a majority of the 15 million Mormons the Church continues to count and if less active members were included in surveys like this I supsect the overall results would be much closer to average. To me the fact that people can attend some of these other churches without feeling like they need to believe or perfectly practice everything that is preached is actually an advantage compared to the LDS Church. For example, maybe some Catholics that aren’t very religious will have grandchildren that get more out of the Catholic Church than they did but at this point the LDS Church would have to convert many people in situations like this as if their inactive parents or grandparents were never Mormon.
Well said.
When I was more involved with missionary work I’d often lament that there were some people that wanted to be baptized but we didn’t allow them due to WoW issues. I’d rather have them in the church working out the kinks than out of the church trying to do the same. If it takes 3 or 4 generations to better live the standards it takes 3 or 4 generations, but those are 3 or 4 generations where people can still derive other benefits from membership in the church. What we’re currently doing is blocking the connection from being made now and delaying that 3 or 4 generation adaptation period such that it occurs much further down someone’s family tree.
nibbler wrote:If it takes 3 or 4 generations to better live the standards…
I agree, especially when you see it was instituted and they gave existing members somewhat of a pass for a generation, it seems the baptismal requirement should be more tolerant, I would think.
nibbler wrote:When I was more involved with missionary work I’d often lament that there were some people that wanted to be baptized but we didn’t allow them due to WoW issues. I’d rather have them in the church working out the kinks than out of the church trying to do the same. If it takes 3 or 4 generations to better live the standards it takes 3 or 4 generations, but those are 3 or 4 generations where people can still derive other benefits from membership in the church. What we’re currently doing is blocking the connection from being made now and delaying that 3 or 4 generation adaptation period such that it occurs much further down someone’s family tree.
I recall hearing how much the church was not following the WoW for decades and there was some talk about how it took that long to have (most) everyone inline. But for converts we have them do it within a month or so.
LookingHard wrote:I have heard many therapist say that even for those that have sex before marriage that once they are married, things change. I remember a story about a (non-member) couple that were sexually active before marriage and this included lots of oral sex. After they were married a while one of them decided they didn’t like oral sex anymore and the other was very upset over the change.
I think that was part of the plot for the book and movie “Gone Girl”
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