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Maybe sexist jokes are a turnoff. 😳 Sexist jokes… totally OK as long as they are in true jest and if you can dish it you should be able to take it. 😆 So I am stuck on this post. What do women want? First I started answering what I would want. But then I thought, “Yes, but my life experience has led me to wanting some very specific things. They don’t need to know what
Iwant because these guys are not looking for me.”They want some examples of what most usually fresh-faced-never-been-married 20-something-year-old women want. So I started writing out some answers. But they started looking like so many pop-psychology books on the subject. Really, the Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus series are very good. There is a book called something like “How to Make Anyone Fall in Love with You” that explains much of the psychology of mate attraction. Lots of others I am sure you can pick up anywhere really. ***Half.com!*** Be responsible with money. That’s my first suggestion. Never pay full price for something new that loses value as soon as you touch it, and works just as good used. Never pay full price for books, for a start. Spend money but spend it wisely and on things that count! Secondly, one can never underscore enough the value of good personal hygiene. Showers every day people! Take care of your teeth!
What I would want personally is probably reflective of what most second-time-around women with some serious life experience would want. I don’t mind sharing at all, but I think we are mostly talking about how young, never been married men can find someone right? Unless someone says otherwise I will assume the former and keep my long essays about what I and other back-to-the-drawing-board women would want.
I’ve spent a whole lot of time trying to figure out what women want and trying to make myself more attractive to women. Here is a description of the ideal man that twentysomething Mormon women are looking for: He puts on his black leather jacket and rides his Harley to the orphanage, where he volunteers by reading to blind orphans. He teaches karate lessons for free to underprivileged youth. When someone tries to mug him, he uses his martial arts skills to subdue the mugger. Then he comforts a child whose lollipop has been stolen. There is never a dull moment when you are with him; you’re always wondering what crazy thing he’s going to do next or what funny thing he’s going to say. He turns everything into an adventure. His friends gather around him, waiting to be entertained by his endless humor and funny stories. He can be seen attending the temple weekly, his long hair just touching the collar of his impeccably clean suit. He can play and sing AC/DC’s “Thunderstruck” on the electric guitar. He can sing “Be Still My Soul” while accompanying himself with the piano. He can sing Frank Sinatra’s “The Way You Look Tonight.” He is the life of every party, but takes time to make sure that everyone feels included. He bears his testimony with both a tear and a roar. He is highly intelligent, but you would never know it, because he never talks about intellectual things unless the occasion calls for it. He is a mountain climber on weekends. He climbs shirtless, his bulging muscles glistening in the sun.
I think that description will suffice. I have realized that I have admirable- even exceptional- talents, but they’re not
the righttalents for what Mormon women want. Mormon women seem to have a pretty narrow range of traits that they consider acceptable and attractive, so I’m considering giving non-Mormon women a try. Lol that is so sad and so funny. If its any consolation many women feel the same as you when trying to be what a Mormon guy wants. Its an impossible mix of standards and some women just end up faking it. And then the guys complain after they are married that she “changed.” I think its hard enough to find a mate anyway… but then add in the Mormon complication. It is a scary- huge task. I don’t know that non Mormons will be better. They might be better in some ways but other benefits will be lost, on the whole. Maybe you should just drop your expectations of what you think you want, don’t worry about whether she is LDS or not and see what happens. You need to make your list of what you “need” though and don’t compromise that. Just be very careful about what you decide you really need. Sometimes wants are confused for needs. IM, I hope you were joking, because I personally don’t think that is at all what Mormon women want. If you were joking, it really is quite funny; if not, I’m at a bit of a loss.
I think Mormon women want what almost all women want: someone to whom they feel attracted who loves them and makes them feel special and worthwhile when they are together. Part of that for many is a belief that they can be married in the temple and be together forever, but, at heart, that’s just the extension of the more primal desires.
They want to be accepted for who they are; they want to be loved; they want to feel good about themselves; etc.
The rest is just packaging and can be radically different person to person.
My advice: Quit trying to be what you think others want and just be the best “you” possible at the moment.
Inquiring mind – I was taking what you said as more of a caricature. But ray is right that really not what Mormon women want. Really it is less of what a woman feels about you and more of what she feels about herself when she is with you. And it can’t be fake. It has to be real. Which means you shouldn’t be something you are not. If you pretend, even if you do find someone it wont last. But there is some reason to understanding attraction and using it to your advantage. You may be doing something, not purposefully, that is not a true reflection of who you are internally but that is preventing you from connecting on the level you need to. Or something you are not doing. And yes it could be not you at all. But it doesn’t hurt to study up on the psychology side and see what behaviors might help you better. But as ray said you should not be putting on a show or trying to be someone you are not. I’ve been married for more than 10 years and I still don’t really know what my wife wants, much less women in general! Any attempts to generalize would be as foolish as trying to determine what is the one flavor of ice cream all mormon women want. It’s not that simple.
Marriage age has been climbing. The age at which people leave home has been climbing. Good jobs are tough to find for many college grads. There are simple non-religious answers.
Also, for some of the “older” women that haven’t married, I think that is a numbers game. Single men just don’t stay active in church at a very high rate like women do. If they are waiting for active LDS to marry, they will keep waiting.
turinturambar wrote:Featherina,
Maybe a better questions is: What are the turnoffs that men can work on?
As hinted at, it varies with each woman… & their monthly cycle.😆 I can only speak for myself & maybe a little for others that have told me…
I’d say the over-arching turnoff that most of the other turn-offs fall under is a lack of trust.
IE: It really ticks me off & is a turn off when my husband cares more about what other people think, than he does about me.
It makes me not trust him for my well-being & also I don’t trust him in worshipping false gods (others). He’s supposed to worship me!
😆 J/KActually, I’d rather he tell me when I’m being a pain in the behind, when needed.
It’s nice to feel supported – listened to, especially.
If you want to turn on a woman (at least most women)… learn to actively listen.
She then comes to trust that you care about her – what she thinks, which is more “her” than her body etc.
There are probably many ways of earning or breaking trust…
This might sound a little primal – but it is a turn on to see courage – either physical, emotional, social etc.
RagdollSally hit the nail on the head about genuinity.
Most women, unless they have their heads in the clouds, are pretty perceptive & can smell BS from far away.
Guys may think they have to be Mr. Tough guy to be attractive… but actually, the genuinity of being HUMAN – letting their vulnerabilities show can be a turn on, as long as they maintain some inner-strength/self esteem that is theirs no matter what happens in relationships.
Brown wrote:
Also, for some of the “older” women that haven’t married, I think that is a numbers game. Single men just don’t stay active in church at a very high rate like women do. If they are waiting for active LDS to marry, they will keep waiting.True for never-been-married-with-no-kids women. Not true in the divorced w/kids population.I was back on the 2nd market dating scene a only a few years ago. There were scads and scads of men desperate to get married again. Probably the law of chastity encourages that in any man who wants to stay LDS. Even though most of them end up screwing up, they do at least feel guilty about it and their solution is to get married again fast. Not all of course, there are lots of players. But there are plenty of men who genuinely are seeking to get married. My friends would always tease me that I always had a flavor of the week lined up. Never had a dateless weekend. And not a few of them were already looking at rings by the second date. It was crazy. Maybe it’s not everyone’s experience, IDK, but that was what my experience was. It also seemed there was a huge pattern of LDS men who were married for several years once and then they rushed into a second marriage that lasted a very short time– surely because they were too optimistic about the 2nd go around women and rushed into something. Sad.
I had a hard time because I didn’t really care to find a great looking guy. Most good looking men know it and focus on looks too much. Good looking men were available, would ask me out OK. But those were often the ones I felt were a bit shallow and I was afraid that as I aged I would lose my value to them. But some of the guys that actually had the personalities I was looking for were maybe intimidated by me? IDK. For me I would rather have had a guy who I could really connect with spiritually, who shared my dreams and have him just be very average looking, maybe kinda gray or baldish, maybe a few extra pounds. But maybe I am weird, IDK.
I don’t miss the dating scene at all. I hate the games and the lies, and I really hate that almost all dates end in rejection. Either you have to reject them or they have to reject you, because very few dating relationships actually lead to marriage. It’s a messed up world out there. It is not what most people romanticize in their minds when they have rough times and think about getting out of their marriage and dating again. I would very, very highly encourage anyone thinking about divorce, if your situation is AT ALL workable.. work it! Dating the second time around is not what you remember! The dating pool needs a heavy dose of chlorine!
Also… one more add…as Featherina and I covered, even if the woman is really pretty, make sure she knows its much more than that that you like about her. She needs to know you are attracted to her for sure, but if she is pretty she probably gets told that all the time. Unless you make her feel valued for who she really is, you will be just another guy.
InquiringMind wrote:He puts on his black leather jacket and rides his Harley to the orphanage …
I shared that with my college-aged daughter. She laughed, but seemed slightly abashed. In other words, I think you nailed it.
doug wrote:InquiringMind wrote:He puts on his black leather jacket and rides his Harley to the orphanage …
I shared that with my college-aged daughter. She laughed, but seemed slightly abashed. In other words, I think you nailed it.
I shared the above description I gave of the perfect Mormon guy with a sharp single female friend of mine, and she said that I was right on, and the only thing she would add would be that if this perfect guy was in a relationship he would have his own life going on to the point where he’d give his girlfriend exactly the right amount of attention- not too much, not too little.
If people have been married for awhile, they may have trouble believing that single never-married people could value things that seem so fickle and unimportant. I think that part of that is due to the chemical change that happens between one and two years after marriage, where “passion” chemicals are replaced with “stability” chemicals. But if there is anything that I can testify to, I can testify that the things that single never-married people value in terms of attractiveness are what they are, and in our world they are largely arbitrary, illogical, and ultimately probably not very important, but
very real and powerful nonetheless.Genetics and culture are very difficult things to fight. Quote:Genetics and culture are very difficult things to fight.
Amen – and there’s a lesson in there for how accepting we all should be of others outside of just this particular topic.
When I first saw this topic my first thought was to not bother to post. I know some other singles have posted. I really do feel like this topic is really meant for those of us who are not married. Personally I wanted to be further along in life than I am right now. I wanted to have a job that allowed me to have my own apartment with no roommates. I wanted that first bachelor’s pad apartment to eventually convert into the first living quarters of Mr. and MRS. Green-Apples.
I tried a few different jobs some didn’t hold. Others were temp jobs but nothing that really could turn into a career. I mainly went to college for a bit mainly to find myself. I have an idea of who I am but I really don’t see that I have reached my full potential. I have partly finished degrees and partly finished certificate programs. I personally felt totally burnt out and decided to take a break to find myself elsewhere.
I still don’t have that job that allows me to have my own apartment with no roommates.
Currently in my parents basement until I head off to the military.
The reality of the situation is I don’t need much to live, however I currently don’t make enough to support myself a wife and kids.
There are single men out there right now that might have the ability to pay for a place with a room mate. They don’t have a means to pay for themselves, a wife and a kid.
There are plenty of people in my singles ward that are in their 30s. Some of those people might in time transition into the mid single adults or standard Single Adult programs for all ages.
The sad situation is that it is risky business to get married and be somewhat comfortable. Yeah sure we could always go on church welfare or government welfare for a time. Personally for me I would not want to do that. Neither would the other guys.
Some of the girls make more money than their boyfriends. Although it is considered okay for both newly weds to work there is still the pressure for the man to be the bread winner of the family.
There is that extra pressure for the woman to be the housewife. There is a double standard for women. The church says that women should become educated but don’t have a career your career is to be a wife and mother. I feel that there are many younger career women in church today. They are not yet ready to give up their business card. Many of these girls go into hair-styling, teaching, they go into the medical field or do something else that creates a fair amount of money for them. They know that marriage means children and they will have to give up their work for at least a few years.
Guys don’t feel that they are making enough money to support a family. Girls don’t want to become a housewife just yet.
The average age for marriage in the United States is 30 – 35. I honestly don’t see anything wrong with that. I think there would be less divorce if at least the men waited to be a bit older. At the age of 25 the frontal brain lobes are developed more. If the church culture transitioned into “lets not even think about marriage until 25.” I think there would be healthier marriages and less divorce.
InquiringMind wrote:I’ve spent a whole lot of time trying to figure out what women want and trying to make myself more attractive to women. Here is a description of the ideal man that twentysomething Mormon women are looking for:
He puts on his black leather jacket and rides his Harley to the orphanage, where he volunteers by reading to blind orphans. He teaches karate lessons for free to underprivileged youth. When someone tries to mug him, he uses his martial arts skills to subdue the mugger. Then he comforts a child whose lollipop has been stolen. There is never a dull moment when you are with him; you’re always wondering what crazy thing he’s going to do next or what funny thing he’s going to say. He turns everything into an adventure. His friends gather around him, waiting to be entertained by his endless humor and funny stories. He can be seen attending the temple weekly, his long hair just touching the collar of his impeccably clean suit. He can play and sing AC/DC’s “Thunderstruck” on the electric guitar. He can sing “Be Still My Soul” while accompanying himself with the piano. He can sing Frank Sinatra’s “The Way You Look Tonight.” He is the life of every party, but takes time to make sure that everyone feels included. He bears his testimony with both a tear and a roar. He is highly intelligent, but you would never know it, because he never talks about intellectual things unless the occasion calls for it. He is a mountain climber on weekends. He climbs shirtless, his bulging muscles glistening in the sun.
I think that description will suffice. I have realized that I have admirable- even exceptional- talents, but they’re not
the righttalents for what Mormon women want. Mormon women seem to have a pretty narrow range of traits that they consider acceptable and attractive, so I’m considering giving non-Mormon women a try. I just bought a leather jacket and motorcycle, and I am heading to the orphange tomorrow…. thanks for the help. lol
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