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The disturbing thing is I read these kinds of comments all the time online – and worse – and I have often thought it was only a matter of time before one or two of the maniacal headbanging atheists got violent. Seems it has already happened. I can see more of this happening as solitary atheists online become further radicalized by the polarizing tendencies of Facebook etc (i.e. you end up mostly communicating with folk within your viewpoint and having it affirmed).
Given how some atheists seem only to see religion in terms of intolerance and violence, and see their worldview as superior and untarnished, the boot is on the other foot here.
Quote:On February 10, 2015, Deah Shaddy Barakat, Yusor Mohammad Abu-Salha, and Razan Mohammad Abu-Salha were killed in their home in Finley Forest Condominiums on Summerwalk Circle in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, United States Hicks had set a banner image on his page to one stating: “I don’t deny you your right to believe whatever you’d like; but I have the right to point out it’s ignorant and dangerous for as long as your baseless superstitions keep killing people.”[43] In another Facebook post, Hicks stated: “I give your religion as much respect as your religion gives me […] there’s nothing complicated about it, and I have every right to insult a religion that goes out of its way to insult, to judge, and to condemn me as an inadequate human being—which your religion does with self-righteous gusto.”[44]
Hicks is a gun rights advocate with a concealed weapons permit[37] who had thirteen firearms in his house.[41]
And this is relevant to this forum how? Quite a few ways. One of the usual tactics atheists use against religion is accusing it of violence. I see this regularly. When mass murderers like Mao are mentioned (who killed millions – some just for being religious), we are told they are “not true atheists” (although if you say Torquemada was not a real Christian they’d be the first to cry foul)… or that their actions are somehow not part of militant atheism… or that the instigator was mentally ill so not really atheist somehow. In this case, Hicks appears to be both.
I’ve noticed a very aggressive tendency amongst certain internet atheists and I’m surprised it hasn’t turned violent more often. Reading some sections of social media, you’d think Christians were all Flat Earthers, mentally ill, uneducated or somehow inferior – and if that is all you hear then you head in Hicks’ direction.
Ironically, one of Hicks’ complaints is intolerance. Clear psychological projection.
Desecration of religious sites by the irreligious has been ongoing for a while now. Some churches in Rome were smashed up earlier this year, and gained international media attention.
I think it is only a matter of time before some of the more militant end start targeting Mormons. Gay rights activists have already started on this tactic. I think their actions have actually made it more difficult for pro-gay and LGBT LDS.
It seems to me people can become radical and even turn to violence over many issues. Politics, religion…or other things. Radical mormonism was written about by Krakauer. Whatever the radicalization…the answer is to return to human connection and love.
I have no quarrel with atheism, or any other -ism.
People make stories in their mind on what they think is important to frame the world…and they act on that. If atheism helps someone shed abusive or hurtful things they found in religion so they can be a peaceful person in the community of earth, great. I don’t think atheism will die or turn nasty. Just people die and turn nasty…atheists, muslims, christians, buddhists, scientists, jedi, LGBT, and mormons. Websites aren’t doing it. It’s been around and websites are just ways to express it.
But if people are gonna attack religion…atheism can’t expect any special treatment or be off limits. People gonna blame religion, and religious will blame atheists or non-religious. It goes both ways.
It’s the ugly side of humanity. Yin, and yang, there are equally good balancing forces. Good websites, good authors and readers, good people who manage their pain enough to love others despite it.
Religion doesn’t kill people. Guns don’t kill people. Websites don’t kill people.
Opposition in all things is what helps us define all things. The news can be depressing sometimes.
I like the CNN website that helps us celebrate heroes:
http://www.cnn.com/specials/cnn-heroeshttp://www.cnn.com/specials/cnn-heroes” class=”bbcode_url”> I’m not sure where this is going. I have friends that consider themselves atheists & they are far from what you’re talking about. This sounds like how some groups talk about us.
SamBee wrote:Given how some atheists seem only to see religion in terms of intolerance and violence, and see their worldview as superior and untarnished, the boot is on the other foot here.
I often see people of one religion make similar claims about other religions, the exact same claims. I don’t think religion or secularism is at the root of the issues you describe, it’s more a part of human nature and religion is being used as the justification.
There are many things that can deeply divide us; feelings about religion, political views, color, race, ethnicity, gender, age, sexual orientation, etc. Sometimes people seek validation in their choice of religion, political views, sexual orientation, etc. by attempting to invalidate all the alternatives. As humans we also fight against fears and the tendency to stereotype. No one group is immune from individuals falling into the trap of becoming radicalized in their beliefs, we’re all human.
nibbler wrote:… in their choice of religion, political views, sexual orientation, etc. .
I certainly didn’t choose my sexual orientation, just like I didn’t choose my gender or ethnic background. But yes, this kind of tribalism is not specific to religion, and everything to do with people fearing those who are different.
You’d think exposure would help people get used to differences, but it doesn’t. I grew up in a California town with an ever present and growing non-white middle class, and as liberal as the culture is there, my mom has been told multiple times to “go back to her country.”
Even minority groups that you’d think would know better from being on the receiving end of this kind of treatment act the same way. Many gays say quite nasty things and perpetuate stereotypes about bisexuals, for example.
So long as people maintain an us vs them attitude or insist that others follow the “right” way to do things, this kind of hostile tribalism will stick around.
nibbler wrote:SamBee wrote:Given how some atheists seem only to see religion in terms of intolerance and violence, and see their worldview as superior and untarnished, the boot is on the other foot here.
I often see people of one religion make similar claims about other religions, the exact same claims. I don’t think religion or secularism is at the root of the issues you describe, it’s more a part of human nature and religion is being used as the justification.
This sounds like Stage 3 from Fowler. Many people stay in that space their whole life. But it is not the only way religion or non-religion groups think. Just some groups, often times people finding it unfulfilling and then jump from group to group, without exiting the stage. Some find the stage to become cyclical and unrewarding…and move to stage 4 to ask what is happening with the cycle that has no solutions.
Having said that…some in stage 3 find it works for them if they can keep love in their hearts, perhaps unable to explain other groups, but fully committed to their own group and find comfort in defining things with “us vs them” thinking. It isn’t always full of hate.
But it certainly can become that to some people. Perhaps like alcohol…it doesn’t create alcoholism for everyone…but for some people it really sets off their genetic makeup to create huge life problems.
I think some people are just more prone to fundamentalism and hate problems than others. Not everyone in stage 3 is evil and wrong, but I can see the breeding grounds for awful thinking if allowed unchecked. There are many options. Love can cover the deficiencies of any stage.
People gonna people. The whole natural man stuff. Why do we always put labels on people and then try and associate bad behavior to that label. Some people are just idiots, regardless of their belief. It is more like their atheism or religion is an out growth of them not the cause of their idiocy. Cadence’s comment is important to remember, especially when dealing with individuals. If someone’s is jerk as an atheist, s/he probably would be a jerk as a theist of some sort. That doesn’t hold true in all cases, of course, but it probably is an accurate generalization.
Having said that, ideologies can make good people out of bad people, as long as the ideologies themselves are enobling and based on love. Their are for,S of atheism and theism that illustrate this.
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