The Nature of Sin

[Anonymous]

Mikhail123 wrote:

Perhaps the best way to understand what the sin is for a grown man, is to imagine him explaining it to little kid and then just follow the given explanation himself.

I suppose this ties into our theology in some ways, but wouldn’t we soften it up for a child?

[Anonymous]

Based on these definitions, losing my temple recommend would make my bishop, me, my family, and my friends unhappy. If I couldn’t attend my daughter’s temple wedding that would make everybody extremely unhappy and is therefore wrong of me to do. Therefore I have come to the conclusion that the least sinful and most moral thing for me to do is to be less than honest about my lack of faith with my bishop in my temple recommend interviews. I feel a little bad about it, because I try to have integrity, but I think the best thing to do is hurt the fewest people.

[Anonymous]

Sometimes life presents us with choices that aren’t clearly right and wrong. Sometimes we must choose between competing goods, or the lesser of the evils.

I had an experience that may or may not help. I had been totally inactive for 17 years. To my great surprise, I suddenly had the urge to talk to my resident bishop, who I didn’t know. Over the next couple of months we had 3 meetings where I vented about my beefs with the Church. Then an even bigger surprise came when I got engaged. My intended was a convert to the Church and had been a temple worker for many years. She told me she would marry me any where I wanted, but did request me to ask my bishop what it would take to get a temple recommend.

In that meeting the bishop took 30-45 minutes discussing my feelings around the principles in the questions. He then said he would read the questions out of the book, and ask I answer with only “yes” or “no”. Then he took a couple of minutes to silently pray whether the Lord approved, and then asked me if I would commit to start wearing G’s, attend church, and pay tithing hence forth. I said it would be tough but I would do my best.

He signed the recommend, and instructed me to meet with stake pres, but warned me not to get into any philosophical discussions. The guy was an accountant by profession and didn’t condone gray areas. I passed with flying colors tinged with a little gray and my integrity in tact.

I have been mostly active since then. But whenever I renew my recommend I constrain my answers to “yes”, “no”, and “earnestly trying”. I feel that of the 3 signatures on the recommend, mine is the most important one. It reflects my relationship with God, irrespective of my relationship with the Church. Also, I have known bishops who comment that most people are to critical of themselves visa-vie the temple recommend questions.

Therefore, I feel comfortable giving the answer the authority wants to hear whenever there is a gray area. You can find a copy of the recommend questions on the net. I suggest you review them before going to the interview to know what your answers will be.

Good luck and god speed.

[Anonymous]

My approach is similar to a lot of those already expressed.

I base my understanding of sin on the scriptural encounter between God and Enoch where God indicates that He gave men two commands, “that they should love one another and that they should choose me.”

So whatever I choose to do that is less than loving toward my fellow men or that leads me away from unity with God is sinful.

I have found that a lot acts we label sinful aren’t and a lot of acts we find acceptable are sinful, I also know that I live by many arbitrary standards that are products of my ethnic, national, and religious cultures. So long as they “do no harm”, I typically comply for the sake of those who hold them dear. I openly acknowledge the standards as arbitrary (in my view) when asked or when the opportunity arises to do so in a way that allows for understanding rather than confrontation.

A few years back, I had a very difficult time with my definition because I absolutely did not want to raise my children with the black and white mentality I absorbed from my church experience. Wrestling over how I would give them both a moral anchor and the freedom to acknowledge the gray was a significant internal struggle.

[Anonymous]

One person’s harm is not another’s though.

Look at the discussions on p*rn. Who gets harmed is a moot point. The performers? The viewer? Both? Or are none of them harmed* as some would have it?

ALL of these are opinions held by different people on the subject.

* Obviously I’m not talking about extreme cases where exploitation and slavery are obviously involved, but board members disagree on this and the degree.

[Anonymous]

Sin? Is that not just a human concept devised to control behavior. There is right and wrong and there are consequences to our actions but in my experience sin gets applied to actions that many times are neither wrong or against gods will. Just against what that guy over there wants you to do.

[Anonymous]

Sambee,

Board members disagree over what constitutes sin? I can do you one better.

I disagree with what I thought was sin just a few years ago. My future self will likely disagree with what I currently believe. At least I hope so! My understanding of what causes harm and breeds division or fosters charity and unity changes as I am shaped by my experiences and as my knowledge base expands. Every day, I seem to have interactions that open my eyes to the far reaching impact of choices I once considered inconsequential. I also find that choices I once considered fundamental are ripples in a very shallow pond.

As for using the concept of sin to control others, I consider that a sin. In my book, good people inspire others to avoid sin (as I defined it above) while the impotent (or desperate) attempt to compel them. I know that the times when I’ve been heavy handed in my approach, I have acted out of fear, desperation, or a warped need to protect others from the very experiences which produce growth.

[Anonymous]

MNG I was referring to harm rather than sin although some consider them the same.

[Anonymous]

SamBee wrote:

MNG I was referring to harm rather than sin although some consider them the same.

Yeah – I think there’s some overlap in those concepts but mostly my point was just that our perceptions change and maybe they should as we mature and have life experience.

[Anonymous]

I tend to agree about control, but again, this control can be used for positive effect too.

If it stops someone stealing or attacking someone I’m for that kind of control.

[Anonymous]

mercyngrace wrote:

Every day, I seem to have interactions that open my eyes to the far reaching impact of choices I once considered inconsequential. I also find that choices I once considered fundamental are ripples in a very shallow pond.

Thanks MnG, I get what you are saying about supposedly inconsequential choices having a large impact (maybe gossip). Unfortunately, I think I am missing your metaphor about ripples in a shallow pond. Might you elaborate?

[Anonymous]

Roy wrote:

mercyngrace wrote:

Every day, I seem to have interactions that open my eyes to the far reaching impact of choices I once considered inconsequential. I also find that choices I once considered fundamental are ripples in a very shallow pond.

Thanks MnG, I get what you are saying about supposedly inconsequential choices having a large impact (maybe gossip). Unfortunately, I think I am missing your metaphor about ripples in a shallow pond. Might you elaborate?

Sure. The idea that choices we make have consequences which, like throwing a stone into a lake, ripple outward beyond what we can presently perceive is a fairly common metaphor. Whether we are talking about passing along a good attitude by being friendly and helpful to strangers on our walk to the office or by passing on abusive language by bullying our children who in turn bully others.

It’s easy, with a binary paradigm, to believe that wrong choices forever alter our destiny. That the ripples go on and on and on. I don’t believe that is necessarily the case anymore. I think some of the choices we make are a lot less significant than I used to make them. There was a time when I would have judged a young couple who got pregnant before marriage. I don’t do that anymore. It’s not the end of the world. Or I would have presumed that a word of wisdom problem was a roadblock to spirituality. In my black and white worldview, the choice to drink or smoke would reach far beyond the grave. I don’t believe that anymore. There are a few ripples with limited impact (very shallow pond), none of which, in my opinion, preclude a man from approaching the throne of God.

[Anonymous]

Swanson, Swenson…Sampsonite. Wow, I was way off! Thanks for the clarification.

[Anonymous]

Roy wrote:

Swanson, Swenson…Sampsonite. Wow, I was way off! Thanks for the clarification.

Topic hijack in progress…

I was surprised when I found out a lot of that was filmed in Utah. One of my favorite films though, definitely.

[Anonymous]

IMO, Christ’s statement on the greatest commandment is helpful to understand sin.

Mark 12: 30-31

And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

And the second is like, namely this,Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

The ten commandments all fit nicely into the first two. So for me, sin can be defined as violating some principle, but moderated by intention and understanding of the situation. For example as I was a child, I was taught not to put my hand on the stove. Intentional or not my violating that rule would yield a natural consequence if the stove were hot. If it were cold, I might be reprimanded for

disobedience, and if I pushed another child so that he put his hand on the stove then I would be morally culpable.

I like what Apostle Richard L. Evans said:

Quote:

Here is a remarkable statement by Plato concerning a reason for not doing wrong.

Quote:

“If I were sure God would pardon me, and men would not know my sin, yet I should be ashamed to sin because of its essential baseness.”

This is to say that beyond conventions, beyond customs, even beyond the commandments, there is something essential within man that pays a penalty if he does not conduct himself with dignity and self-respect, and with respect for the purpose and laws of life.

[Author]

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