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I got to thinking the other night, how is the Church going to equitably enforce its new policy? Let’s say there is a kid growing up in Boston right now. He’s twelve years old and is being raised by a same-sex couple. Nobody in his family is particularly tuned in to anything that’s happening in the LDS Church. Fast forward eight years. The kid is now twenty. He has left home and gone off to college. He meets an LDS girl, starts dating her, develops an interest in her church and eventually decides to convert. When he goes in for his baptismal interview, is he going to be asked, “Were you raised by a same-sex couple, and if so, do you denounce their marriage?” I doubt very much that that’s going to happen. Is the Church actually going to revise the baptismal interview to include questions of that sort? If not, how does it plan on enforcing its new policy? Or did anybody even stop to think about this when deciding that the children of same-sex couples needed “protecting”?
I could see some people saying, “Uh, no. Why do you ask?” Then when told, saying, “Never mind. I don’t think I want to be part of this.” What a shame. The alternative is to become so focused on this one issue that it permeates everything. Make sure it is uppermost in everyone’s mind so that contact with children of same-sex couples is avoided, and things can never reach the point of a baptismal interview.
I think most likely is that it’ll be the missionaries’ responsibility to ask the questions earlier in the teaching process. How would that work?
My husband is very anti-SSM, but his first comment was that they hadn’t thought it all the way through.
I can see them putting it into the questions. They already ask if you’ve ever been involved in an abortion. When they consider Bishops, they ask if they have ever been divorced. And then there are the TR interview questions which at one time, I understand asked whether you had oral relations with your spouse. So, I don’t think it would be very hard on our culture to make it part of the baptismal process to ask if you were raised by parents in a same sex relationship. That is soemthing the church would have no problem systemizing and placing in recommend.baptismal interview questions.
SilentDawning wrote:And then there are the TR interview questions which at one time, I understand asked whether you had oral relations with your spouse.
Why did they want to know that information? Is it something to be ashamed of? Oral sex with my spouse? I didn’t get the memo. I enjoy it. Too late. It just seems like a misplaced question when you consider the purpose of the conversation. It’s a temple recommend interview question. Whether or not you can go to the temple depends on how you answer these questions. They’re all yes/no questions too. But if you look at the temple recommend interview questions as if they were a school assignment, you would have to get 100% correct to get a ticket.
What I find fascinating is how much the new policy has me thinking in hypotheticals. I still haven’t spoken with anyone that says the policy has truly harmed them in some way. There are those that agree or disagree and then there are those that don’t care. But nobody is really being injured. That’s just my perspective.
Unknown wrote:What I find fascinating is how much the new policy has me thinking in hypotheticals. I still haven’t spoken with anyone that says the policy has truly harmed them in some way. There are those that agree or disagree and then there are those that don’t care. But nobody is really being injured. That’s just my perspective.
When I first heard about the policy, I was heartbroken that the Church would do something like this. Then I told myself, “Well, at least it probably won’t affect all that many people. I mean how many same-sex couples are going to want to raise their kids in the Church anyway?” A couple of days later, when the “mass resignation” took place, I once again found myself feeling overwhelmed with confusion and grief. This time I consoled myself by thinking, “Well, most of those who are resigning haven’t been active for years anyway, so who is really going to be affected if they resign?”
The day before Thanksgiving, my 36-year old son, who hasn’t really considered himself to be LDS since he stopped attending church at the age of 16, called me and told me that he was seriously considering having his name officially removed from the Church’s records. He said, “I just can’t be affiliated with any organization that would treat innocent children this way.” Although I told him that regardless of his ultimate decision, there was nothing he could do that would change the way I feel towards him, I felt like he has just stabbed me in the heart. So much for “nobody is really being injured.”
Four days later, I had to teach Relief Society. The subject of my lesson was a Dieter Uchtdorf talk, “It works wonderfully!” (about how the gospel should work wonderfully in our lives). That was a fun lesson to give.
I wonder if the current baptismal recommend questions touch on if your parents are polygamist? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
LookingHard wrote:I wonder if the current baptismal recommend questions touch on if your parents are polygamist?
Good question. What do you think?
:eh: Unknown wrote:SilentDawning wrote:Why did they want to know that information?
At one time, priesthood leaders were asking that question — I heard it from different sources over 20 years ago — it happened over 30 years ago, before I joined the church. I think it has been forgotten but I heard it from multiple sources that priesthood leaders were in fact asking that question.
The oral sex question came from one particular leader, lasted a very short time and was dropped when the outcry hit SLC. The current issue will be hit-and-miss, due to local leadership roulette. It will die eventfully, I believe – but not as quickly as the other one did.
I had heard the entire oral sex thing was done by an underling while the First Presidency were all sick. They got better, found out what had been done while they were incapacitated, and heads rolled. That particular letter went out on official letterhead and was “auto-signed” by the FP without their consent. All copies were supposed to be destroyed. Some SPs kept the letter and continued to push it — which would be a direct act of disobedience.
You can tell whether a SP is in complicance with headquarters or not by whether they are still using the letter. If they are still using it, you know your SP is apostate — and not in a good way.
The following are the current convert baptism interview questions: Quote:1.“
“Do you believe that God is our Eternal Father? Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the Savior and Redeemer of the world?”
2.“
“Do you believe the Church and gospel of Jesus Christ have been restored through the Prophet Joseph Smith? Do you believe that [current Church President] is a prophet of God? What does this mean to you?”
3.“
“What does it mean to you to repent? Do you feel that you have repented of your past transgressions?”
4.“
“Have you ever committed a serious crime? If so, are you now on probation or parole? Have you ever participated in an abortion? a homosexual relationship?”
5.“
“You have been taught that membership in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints includes living gospel standards. What do you understand of the following standards? Are you willing to obey them?”
1.The law of chastity, which prohibits any sexual relationship outside the bonds of a
legal marriage between a man and a woman. 2.The law of tithing.
3.The Word of Wisdom.
4.The Sabbath day, including partaking of the sacrament weekly and rendering service to fellow members.
6.“
“When you are baptized, you covenant with God that you are willing to take upon yourself the name of Christ and keep His commandments throughout your life. Are you ready to make this covenant and strive to be faithful to it?”
Emphasis added. I believe that if the potential convert answers these questions correctly that it could be understood as a disavowal of SSM.
Roy wrote:5. “You have been taught that membership in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints includes living gospel standards. What do you understand of the following standards? Are you willing to obey them?”
1.The law of chastity, which prohibits any sexual relationship outside the bonds of a
legal marriage between a man and a woman. 2.The law of tithing.
3.The Word of Wisdom.
4.The Sabbath day, including partaking of the sacrament weekly and rendering service to fellow members.
Emphasis added. I believe that if the potential convert answers these questions correctly that it could be understood as a disavowal of SSM.
The way I understand it, that would not be the case. A person who was raised by a same-sex couple could say, completely honestly, that he is “willing to obey” the law of chastity, and still not be comfortably “disavowing” his own parents’ marriage, if he were specifically asked that question.I have read comments on facebook and other blogs of a few presently serving Bishops who are planning to just ignore it should the need arise. I don’t know how it will fly but it tells me a lot about the landscape. What mom3 said. I am very sorry for the pain you feel about your son. I understand more or less where he is coming from. I also understand more or less where you are coming from and why this would be so painful. Two good, honest, well-meaning people can love each other and hurt each other. Katzpur wrote:Roy wrote:5. “You have been taught that membership in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints includes living gospel standards. What do you understand of the following standards? Are you willing to obey them?”
1.The law of chastity, which prohibits any sexual relationship outside the bonds of a
legal marriage between a man and a woman. 2.The law of tithing.
3.The Word of Wisdom.
4.The Sabbath day, including partaking of the sacrament weekly and rendering service to fellow members.
Emphasis added. I believe that if the potential convert answers these questions correctly that it could be understood as a disavowal of SSM.
The way I understand it, that would not be the case. A person who was raised by a same-sex couple could say, completely honestly, that he is “willing to obey” the law of chastity, and still not be comfortably “disavowing” his own parents’ marriage, if he were specifically asked that question.If I were the interviewing authority (for a convert baptism I understand this might be a missionary or a member of the missions presidency) I would content myself with the question as written. If the individual understands the law of chastity to condemn any sexual relationship outside of a legal heterosexual marriage and then promises to live it – then that counts as a disavowal in my book.
I do not know how it will actually play out. I am just saying that the interviewing authority could rely on the current interview questions and technically comply with the disavowal standard.
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