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June 11, 2018 at 4:57 pm #329360
Anonymous
GuestQuote:Some have charged that modern Latter-day Saints are peculiarly susceptible to the gospel of success and the theology of prosperity. According to this gospel, success in the world—particularly entrepreneurial succeess—is an essential ingredient of progress toward the celestial kingdom.
According to this theology, success and prosperity are rewards for keeping the commandments, and a large home and an expensive car are marks of heavenly favor. Those who make this charge point to the apparent susceptibility of Utahns (predominantly Latter-day Saints) to the speculative proposals of various get-rich-quick artists. They claim that many Utahns are gullible and overeager for wealth.
Certainly, Utah has had many victims of speculative enterprises. For at least a decade there have been a succession of frauds worked by predominantly Mormon entrepreneurs upon predominately Mormon victims. Stock manipulations; residential mortgage financings; gold, silver, diamonds, uranium, and document investments; pyramid schemes—all have taken their toll upon the faithful and gullible.
Whether inherently too trusting or just naively overeager for a shortcut to the material prosperity some see as the badge of righteousness, some Latter-day Saints are apparently too vulnerable to the lure of sudden wealth.
Objective observers differ on whether Latter-day Saints are more susceptible to get-rich-quick proposals than other citizens. However that may be, it is disturbing that there is no clear evidence that Latter-day Saints are less susceptible. Men and women who have heard and taken to heart the scriptural warnings against materialism should not be vulnerable to the deceitfulness of riches and the extravagant blandishments of its promoters . . .
If Latter-day Saints are specially susceptible to materialism, this may be because materialism is a corruption of a virtue in which Latter-day Saints take special pride. Materialism is a seductive distortion of self-reliance. The corruption occurs through carrying the virtue of “providing for our own” to the point of excess concern with accumulating treasures of the earth.
Dallin H. Oaks, excerpted from “Pure in Heart”
http://www.ldsliving.com/Elder-Oaks-Tackles-Why-Mormons-Have-Such-a-Problem-with-Get-Rich-Quick-Schemes/s/82898 Again I do not believe the LDS version of the Prosperity Gospel is as flashy or ostentatious as some other variants. It might more accurately be described IMO as the Security Gospel or Insurance Gospel. It was this “gospel” that set me up for failure with unrealistic expectations. When disaster struck I was blindsided.
In considering why LDS people might be more vulnerable to get rich quick schemes I am sure there are many contributing causes. I find Elder Oaks analysis that some LDS may carry “the virtue of “providing for our own” to the point of excess” to be not particularly insightful or helpful. It sounds to me like a lawyer defense, as in “Here is a plausible explanation that, if true, would completely exonerate my client.”
Surely I was eager to believe the Security Gospel to the point of being credulous and even gullible. For only 10% of my income and a lifetime of dedicated priesthood service, God would help fight my battles and tip the scales in a multitude of small (perhaps imperceptible) ways in my favor. A husband and father’s core responsibility is to protect and provide. Through this holy bargain, I would
providea coverage of protectionover my household. I would fulfill my duty of “providing for [my] own”. It was a beautiful idea – a functional fallacy. I did not sign up for a get rich quick scheme but I still know what it feels like to rely on and trust in promises of prosperity that seem to evaporate in the harsh rays of the morning sunlight.
July 20, 2018 at 3:13 am #329361Anonymous
GuestI thought this was an interesting article about how the Vatican feels about the US-centric “prosperity gospel” beliefs… Vatican-OK’d journal dissing ‘prosperity gospel’, US evangelicalsI agree with this statement:
Quote:“In truth, one of the serious problems that the prosperity gospel brings is its perverse effects on the poor,” wrote the authors, the Rev. Antonio Spadaro and Marcelo Figueroa.
“In fact, it not only exasperates individualism and knocks down the sense of solidarity, but it pushes people to adopt a miracle-centered outlook because faith alone — not social or political commitment — can procure prosperity.”
[snip]
“There can be no compassion for those who are not prosperous, for clearly they have not followed the rules and thus live in failure and are not loved by God.”
Kind of interesting it is tied to US economic-political model.
July 21, 2018 at 9:51 pm #329362Anonymous
GuestI do like what the church does in this area. It helps fund education and encourages self-reliance and freedom from debt. Like the old saying they try and teach folk how to catch fish, instead of just giving them some. July 22, 2018 at 5:38 pm #329363Anonymous
GuestVery interesting Heber! Some very thoughtful points. Thanks for sharing the article. July 22, 2018 at 7:22 pm #329364Anonymous
GuestI like this idea of the “security gospel” put forth by Roy as opposed to the prosperity gospel. I relate more to it. It’s kind of like self reliance. Some people hear self reliance and think prepping – gardening, cooking on a fire, etc. Others hear self reliant and think working and paying your own bills. My definition is the latter. I think even in this thread when prosperity gospel has been mentioned some people are thinking nice cars, nice house, etc., while other are thinking more of Roy’s security gospel. Again, mine is the latter and like Roy this idea was a contributing factor in my faith crisis (and I suspect many faith crises). July 30, 2018 at 2:35 am #329365Anonymous
GuestThis is one of those subjects that could benefit from a stricter discipline in specifying definitions prior to the discussion. Or maybe also in detailing all the possible elements of and interpretations for. Then there is the ties to things like the purpose for this life, why God made the world a beautiful place and the concept of variable worth. This is worth a penny , but that’s is worth a dime and this thing over here is worth a dollar. All the logic in the world about a penny value may be correct and wonderful, but enough knowledge to get the dollar may be less than all possible knowledge on how to get the Penney. So what should you do? What if your big test in life is to see how you handle cancer, but you live the Word of Wisdom. So you will have heath to the navel, until time to take your test. Prosperity Gospel is not invalid, but your case is trumped by your main test. Also, the interests of the institutional versus the personal church may confuse things. As someone pointed out above, some promises may be more applicable to the institution than the person, or even the aggregate of many persons. Confusing. Lots to sort out. July 31, 2018 at 12:09 am #329366Anonymous
GuestI guess you just take one point at a time, and work through the confusion step by step. Prosperity gospel is very limited, IMO. It doesn’t stand the test of time and sets one up for disappointment.
If it is pointing towards the concept of “The Law of the Harvest”…then I can see that in some situations. You reap what you sow. But that that is not to be confused with nature also throwing in weeds and other random stuff into your garden, mixing up what you sowed with a bunch of random stuff too.
It is all about managing expectations, and not expecting prosperity for good efforts, and dismissing industry by the sweat of your brow.
It’s wisdom to sift the ideas into what works and makes sense for you. One layer at a time. And accepting paradox along the way.
July 31, 2018 at 9:09 am #329367Anonymous
GuestHeber13 wrote:
I thought this was an interesting article about how the Vatican feels about the US-centric “prosperity gospel” beliefs…Vatican-OK’d journal dissing ‘prosperity gospel’, US evangelicals
Bleah. The site sltrib.com isn’t compliant with new EU privacy regulations, so it refuses to serve up content over here. But I assume the article is about this other article, which I loved:
https://laciviltacattolica.com/the-prosperity-gospel-dangerous-and-different/ With apologies for a bit of snarky tone, here’s what I wrote in response on another site.
*****
I think it’s good to keep in mind that, in Mormonism, the heavenly vending machine actually dispenses
spiritualprosperity. In this respect, Mormonism is one of the most hardcore purveyors of the prosperity gospel. After editing away the bits about material blessings, this quote describes Mormonism perfectly:
Quote:
One of the characteristics of these movements is the emphasis placed on the covenant written by God with his people, his witnesses in the Bible. And above all they look to the alliance with the patriarchs. So the text of the alliance with Abraham has a central place, in the sense of guaranteed prosperity.The logic of this concept of “the God of the covenants” is that, as Christians are the spiritual children of Abraham, they are also the inheritors[…]. Rather than a biblical alliance, it sounds like a contract. […]
In these theologies, the filial belonging of Christians as children of God is reinterpreted as that of “Children of the King”: sonship that brings rights and privileges […] to those who recognize and preach it. Harold Hill, in his book
How to be a Winner, wrote: “King’s kids are entitled to receive special treatment because they have a firsthand winning relationship with their heavenly Fatherwho has made all things and continues to be Lord of all.”
In Mormonism, the currency for the heavenly vending machine is obedience. The contract with God says if you put some obedience in, it dispenses a spiritual blessing.
If you put in prayer, scripture reading, keeping the sabbath day holy, etc., then it dispenses the Spirit, your very own Liahona. If you put in prayer with real intent and faith in Christ, then it dispenses knowledge. If you put in family prayer and gospel living, then it dispenses faithful children. If you put in tithing, then it dispenses… well, usually material blessings, going by conference talks. Sometimes it dispenses…
less materialblessings, but everything is spiritual to God, so it’s all good. What if the heavenly vending machine doesn’t work?
Silly goose, the machine always works! You have a contract with God himself that says so! Make sure you check behind the machine in case something fell out and rolled away while you weren’t looking. Nothing there? Okay, well, the prices might be different for you than for me, so try putting more obedience in.
So if you put in more prayer, then maybe it will dispense heterosexuality, or at least the strength to accept it as a lifestyle. If you put in confessing to your bishop and maybe the addiction recovery program, then maybe it will dispense the enabling power of the atonement. If you put in more scripture study, then maybe it will dispense more testimony to counteract those anti-Mormon lies. If you put in more church activity, then maybe it will dispense nice feelings again, so you can stop being depressed.
The problems with this way of framing your relationship with God are the same as with expecting material prosperity or health in return for obedience. You’ll think you deserve your spiritual riches, and judge people who are spiritually poor instead of empathizing with them. And if the vending machine ever stops dispensing blessings, you can drive yourself insane trying to make it work again.
*****
Like Roy and DarkJedi, I give these pernicious and false ideas a good amount of credit for my faith crisis. Surely God would do
something, I thought. And when he didn’t do even the smallest thing I begged for, and worse, seemed to withdraw? Out went belief in God, and with him, the church. I don’t know who or what to be grateful to for this lesson, but I’m grateful. I would rather have been pushed off the Mormon Rameumptom than still be up there looking down on the poor in spirit.
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