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If I can draw an analogy…I’m concerned the “rescue effort” will be akin to this analogy… A person has fallen off a ship, and is in an inflatable ring in the ocean. The Rescue Effort arrives, but creates a huge wake that pushes the person to be rescued further out to the sea. The closer the rescue effort gets, the further it pushes the inflatable ring/person out to sea.
Much better to address the wake, and stop trying to reach the person…instead, create waves out in the sea, on the sea-side of the person, that gently move the person to shore, perhaps without the person even realizing the Rescue Effort is there.
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Rescue from what? The premise is faulty to begin with. It presumes that people are in need of some sort of rescue. I think this is the arrogance in the church that feels that if you are no longer a believer that you are diminished somehow and need to be rescued from something. What that is I am not sure. Sure I can understand the believer wanting you to believe with them, but if they want to “rescue” the “fallen” then it would be better to just accept them as they are. Incorporate them into activities as much as possible and enjoy having them a part of the community. If the plan is to get them to conform and toe the line then there is not a snowballs chance of success.I had the same thought as Cadence above. When a person has settled into a particular way of thinking and believing and is comfortable, then it’s not really a Rescue effort. It’s like you’re on an island somewhere, but you are happy there. You don’t want to be rescued. In fact, for me, taking me back to society and civilization may well repel me even further.
It may even force me to confront the issues facing me to the leadership — not that I haven’t faced them already, but I have done so quietly and peacefully — to raise the issue of my semi-activity puts me in a position where I have to risk the peaceful co-existence I have achieved. If I am truly honest, then I cut off all hope of a return to full activity again.
So, frankly, I’m scared of the rescue effort. Very scared, as it will likely upset the equilibrium I have achieved. I am at peace with the Church and my own perceptions of it now, and the Rescue Effort’s disruptivelness will only expose the way I think and feel if I am asked blunt questions and expected to give an honest answer. It may even be a deterrent when they come out with SMA’s that I have long since thought about and morphed. It could create relationship issues.
So, what do I do when they “come after me” and tell them I’m fine on the island for the time being, and returning to civilization is not on the agenda for the time being?
***
Perhaps one could take the opportunity to provide an alternate perspective to the priesthood leaders about the Rescue Effort…for me, it might mean sharing the time I have spent with others who have left orthodox involvement in the Church, and suggest the individual Wards look really hard at the experience created for the members. And then…offer to be more involved in changing the way we do things…for example, I could be an assistant music director. I would love to compile an CHI-consistent hymnal of contemporary LDS songs that have a hymn life feel. To identify people in the Ward who play musical instruments that are not often used in Church, which are consistent with CHI. To also create a schedule that has music in most meetings….to teach others how to speak with power and engagement of the audience, how to teach …all the things I do well.
Let them know that based on my expeience as a father, and a priesthood leader, this to me, is one of the best rescue efforts we cold assume.
To be fair to what the church is saying, I think calling it a “rescue” is what is said internally to the believers as the call to action is organized to do something, as opposed to just sitting back and focusing at one’s own needs, or the active ward members’ needs, and just ignoring those who are not in church on Sunday. I believe the intention is to “invite” those that aren’t active to come join the fold, for benefits of blessings, peace, support, and growing closer to God (from their perspective). Jesus invited people, and it is pure religion to seek others out and serve and love them, and invite them, while respecting their agency. I don’t think they plan to come knocking on your door and say,
“I’m here to rescue you, come with me so I can save your from danger”. That’s unrealistic. So they may be thinking they are rescuing you from a life filled with fewer blessings, but if they actually do anything, they will always do it with invitations. Of course, some people are better than others at it, and some people are not as patient or compassionate as they should be about it.
Perhaps by them trying to rescue, there are opportunities to talk about it, expanding their view of why you don’t feel you need being rescued from anything. Perhaps they have some good points of things that you could benefit from (service, friendships), and perhaps there are things you can enlighten them on why things aren’t so bad or scary from your perspective.
To me, that interaction is better than staying secluded, or them being uncaring or exclusive.
From that perspective, the premise isn’t faulty. The premise is one of caring and that the social interaction to understand one another is better than doing nothing.
Quote:What are your thoughts of the church’s call for a rescue effort?
We keep on getting told to do this, but the church organization doesn’t seem to be aware of what drives people out.
Love the commentary here. Now that I’ve experienced it, ‘falling away’ and conversely ‘coming back to the fold’ is much more complex than the metaphor that church members hear their whole lives. It’s generally assumed that sin is involved. It’s also assume that you can just come back the point that you were at before you ‘fell away’.
I don’t think you can reconstruct what you had before, necessarily. I know I can’t.
Also, this relates to Brian’s comments about relevancy, but until there is a place for people who will never be able to accept the binary truth (all true or not) paradigm and the mythology again, that they won’t be able to come back.
What a good analogy SD. I love all the analogies our group comes up with from time to time. Even though my husband and I no longer attend the lds church and are active in a local Nazarene church right now, we have no desire to join any other church. Our names are still on the lds church records and the local lds missionaries still drop by our house from time to time. They notice my drawing of the plan of salvation in my home whcih shows the circle of progression from eternal intelligences, to spirit bodies, to physical bodies, and godhood. This is always something that appealed to me and my husband. Anyway, I am sure our names will probably come up on our local ward ‘Rescue List’ that is being promoted. So, far they have not handled it well with us even though I believe they mean well. From the one link I just posted on the pilot program, I am sure we will be written off soon since we would not take the missionary lessons or follow that plan. Like SD said, unless they are willing to address the roots of the problems, sympotmatic treatment would not work with ‘feminists, intellectuals, or homosexuals.” I really think the lds church could learn something from the local Nazarene church we attend. My husband and I have been going there for almost a year and a half now. The pastor and members know we were Mormon for a long time. Even thou they believe it is a cult, they have never put down the lds church and have asked us alot of questions about Mormonism. We have been able to clear up misconceptions and show them the good things about the lds church.
That said, they have encouraged us to ask questions in Sunday School and Bible classes. They welcome us with hugs and want to know our needs to pray for us. They have fellowshipped us with alot of love. They pray for us and our family on the spot when there is a problem. They have their own doubts and questions about religion and God and do not accept all the Nazarenes teach as the gospel truth, but rely on the Holy Spirit for direction. We have never been pushed to join or pay tithe. 6 months ago they asked me to teach the Wed. night womens Bible study class. I explained that I would be happy to but could only go by the parts of their manuals I agreed with. They said that was fine and have loved my lessons on women in the Bible. I even slip in lds teachings at times, and handouts I used to give out in the lds church that they love. I feel accepted and love for myself.
Now, if the lds church would approach inactives more this way, I think it would help.
Sambee and Silentstruggle, I really like your last two comments. bridget_night wrote:Sambee and Silentstruggle, I really like your last two comments.
Thanks, this is my own favorite from Heber:
Quote:The big questions to answer are”Rescue me from what?” “What is it I need to be rescued from?” “Why do I care to be rescued?”
First, Bridget, let me say, I love your positive attitude. You sound at peace, which is what everyone should be able to find. So kudos! :thumbup: bridget_night wrote:They welcome us with hugs and want to know our needs to pray for us. They have fellowshipped us with alot of love. They pray for us and our family on the spot when there is a problem. … I feel accepted and love for myself.
Now, if the lds church would approach inactives more this way, I think it would help.
I would just add, from my experience, my ward has also done this for my family as well. I do think the LDS church sincerely tries to approach others this way, which was the point of the talk about the Rescue Effort.They need to keep doing it, but I would not agree the LDS church never does this and Nazarenes are always better at it. Maybe some wards don’t always do it well in all areas. But me and my family have felt the sincere love of many good LDS members.
Heber, You are right—some wards really are this way. wayfarer wrote:my suggestion about the rescue should be applied first to the arrogant, inflexible attitudes of members toward those who don’t fit into the lds mold. .
:thumbup: Yes… About this “rescue effort”… when one points a finger at someone they consider to be in need of rescue, there are 4 other fingers pointing back at one.
There are times when people really need help, when they’re struggling emotionally, financially, socially etc.
But when I question the dysfunctonal aspects of a religious organization & someone says I’m crazy, I have to wonder if they’re projecting.
I remember shortly after I came back, there was a fireside for reactivated and new members. Anyway, I got talking to what could only be described as a TBM from a neighbouring ward. We’ll call him Brother O. For some reason – I think me and Brother O. were talking about D&C – we got on to the two official declarations. The second OD was mentioned, and it kind of slipped out that the whole black thing had been one of the reasons, I’d gone inactive. I didn’t know many black people, I was just against that whole idea, and thought every worthy person had the right to equal treatment. Anyway, Brother O. more or less backed off from me, and stopped talking to me. This was at an event to welcome people back to the church, and help them, and this guy more or less ran off at the first sign of trouble. Well, I’m still here, and I occasionally run into Brother O. I don’t hate him, but I can’t really ever be particularly friendly towards him, because I felt he showed himself to be a fair weather friend.
My ancestors were members of the Martin Handcart company. The father died along the way. Young Heber, at the age of 13 years old (hence my name, “Heber13”), was responsible to pull the handcart the rest of the way, with sick mother and young siblings in the back. They were freezing at Martin’s cove, chewing leather straps to keep the stomach pangs less noticeable. Brigham Young stopped preaching sermons when he heard the update on the party, and ordered the Rescue Mission to save my ancestors.
I am grateful they did not continue preaching in their tabernacle, but they went out and saved my ancestors, with love and faith in the form of action needed.
If this is how the active membership looks at what they try to do in our day, love and action to reach out to those not in their midst, why would that not be a good thing? Why do some find it offensive?
I think I have my opinions, I just want to stir up thoughts about this. Please share.
Heber13 wrote:My ancestors were members of the Martin Handcart company. The father died along the way. Young Heber, at the age of 13 years old (hence my name, “Heber13”), was responsible to pull the handcart the rest of the way, with sick mother and young siblings in the back. They were freezing at Martin’s cove, chewing leather straps to keep the stomach pangs less noticeable.
Brigham Young stopped preaching sermons when he heard the update on the party, and ordered the Rescue Mission to save my ancestors.
I am grateful they did not continue preaching in their tabernacle, but they went out and saved my ancestors, with love and faith in the form of action needed.
If this is how the active membership looks at what they try to do in our day, love and action to reach out to those not in their midst, why would that not be a good thing? Why do some find it offensive?
I think I have my opinions, I just want to stir up thoughts about this. Please share.
Heber, I love your example here & it’s inspiring to learn more about why you chose your avatar name.There are different ways of being rescued.
Currently, there are almost 1,000,000,000 men, women & children in need of rescue, like your ancestors were in need!
Never before in history has there been so many starving & in extreme poverty (not US poverty – I mean EXTREME poverty).
Jesus taught in the parable of the good Samartian (& in other parables like dividing the sheep & goats) that we are to minister to the temporal needs of each other. Yes, spiritual rescuing is important, but what good is it to a dead person? That’s why the good Samaritan didn’t preach his religion, he simply saved the man’s life & ministered to him physically. And we are instructed to “go and do likewise.”
Don’t get me wrong – I know we also need emotional & spiritual rescue, but one can only lift, if they themselves are on higher ground.
Evil is not so much having bad thoughts or making bad choices – we all do & it’s in the “plan of salvation” – to live & learn & progress that way.
Evil is more in the denying of any badness in us or in other things, because denial prevents progress.
(IE: The 2 thieves crucified by Jesus teach this principle… one mocks & tries to deny responsibility by telling Jesus if he’s God then to save them. The other rebukes the 1st by explaining that they were guilty but Jesus wasn’t & asks Jesus to remember him on the other side & Jesus said he will be with him.)
Blame seems to be a common habit & often when someone tries to “rescue” someone who thinks outside of dictated beliefs, it is a way of blaming.
I’ve received some very rude comments from TBMs, in attempts to rescue me from thinking outside the Mormon box, when they themselves are in such denial, that their lives have become a mess.
Many deny the kingdom of God within…
Sometimes I also look for others gods (ie church, prestige) but anything besides charity will always fail (Moroni 7:47).
Heber, you wrote: Quote:Brigham Young stopped preaching sermons when he heard the update on the [Martin] party, and ordered the Rescue Mission to save my ancestors.
I am grateful they did not continue preaching in their tabernacle, but they went out and saved my ancestors, with love and faith in the form of action needed.
If this is how the active membership looks at what they try to do in our day, love and action to reach out to those not in their midst, why would that not be a good thing? Why do some find it offensive?
When a situation comes up where someone is experiencing physical danger or harm, we understand that, we want to help & we usually respond quickly.
When a situation comes up where someone is experiencing mental, emotional or spiritual danger or harm, we usually don’t know how to react or if we do, it is superficial.
I don’t belief that it is because we are a superficial people, it is because we are afraid & are not prepared to help in a more complex situations.
Think of the various situations Bishops, HT’s & VT’s come across over a life time. They could include:
A. Physical abuse & bullying.
B. Divorce & separations.
C. Sexual abuse.
D. Alcohol, Gambling, Drug or sexual addictions.
E. Gender identification or Homosexuality.
These are topics that are not easy to understand, help or fix.
Something tells me that the Church is beginning to understand that these issues are complex & may not be easy to fix.
The old ways of passing judgement, excommunication, preaching, warning & gossip aren’t working.
As the Church grows in number, problems will grow in number too.
Maybe if the Church wants to really address some of these issues, they will use some of us who have experienced the issues to help address them.
The old ways are not enough anymore.
Mike from Milton.
I wonder if TBM’s really know what to do with ‘members’ like us who have alot of questions about the church. I recall many years ago when I was a TBM and heard about active, stalwart members who had left the church because of stuff they had found in church history, etc. It would shake me up a bit and I wondered what they found that would have made them give up all they had in the church. It made me think for a minute about what I would do if I found out the church was false. SomeTBM (as I was once) like to think their faith is unshakeable and that they know’without a shadow of a doubt’ the church is true. So, they try to help others ‘weak’ in their faith because they believe there is an answer for all their questions. My first crisis of faith happened on my mission in Europe when everything was not going according to plan. The gospel forumla’s didn’t seem to be working and that shakes you up. So, I wonder if TBM members really want to rescue members like us who may challenge and disturb other members with their questions? I never mean to be a trouble maker, but my questions about religion end up causing trouble because people don’t have answers to them, so they either get mad at me or avoid me. So, it is difficult to rescue intellectuals, feminints, or homosexuals. They don’t fit neatly into the gospel plan. Yet, I know our Savior loves people like us.
Well intentioned members have tried to rescue me from time to time. Unfortunately, they end up doing it so insultingly. Like, how can you just break your temple, and church covenants so lightly. You will loose your salvation? They have no idea how my crisis of faith has anquished me and the reseach I have done; how much I have wanted to believe and not leave the church. So, I forgive them and realize only God can answer my questions. Right now I do not believe in one true church, but in just being Christlike.
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