- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
Speaking for myself, dispatching a “professional” wouldn’t help at all. Yes, it would be nice to have a friend in the ward I can be myself around. But the problems I have with the church are systematic and driven from the top. First, I’ll be staying away until the church stops abusing LGBT members. Until then, my daughter needs to feel like she can leave if she has to, and have a constant reminder that someone she cares about deeply thinks the brethren are dead wrong.
Second, I need strong evidence that the church is changing. I would accept any of the following from the Q15.
Offer an apology; i.e. model humility and repentance. I would accept an apology for anything substantial, not just the issues that affect me.
- Remove worthiness interviews, or stop withholding privileges from members who can’t give the right answers; i.e. go back to scriptural notions of worthiness rather than the current Pharisaical ones.
- Admit that it’s valid to be uncertain, believe nonliterally, or even strongly hold opposing beliefs,
even if this never changes toward more belief or literal belief; i.e. go back to scriptural notions of faith. There are probably other things that would get me to consider going back. I think I’d know them when I saw them.
Basically, the Q15 needs to loosen its grip and stop encouraging division and condescension. Until then, as one of the underclass, I would find church activity intolerable.
Clarification on my definition of “Professional” – It was a quote by an EMT at a lifesaving class. His use was totally accurate for the class. To me – I want my GA’s to be Professional. They oversee the curriculum. Their talks are the ones we judge our world by. Their firesides, video blurbs, etc. set the tone.
What I didn’t explain clearly was – before you send out innocent, inexperienced members to “bring in the lost” – Do some serious work yourselves (GA’s)
I am willing to bet plenty of former members would consider returning to their beloved faith if the Essays were published one a month in the Ensign. With supporting articles by historians like Bushman, etc.
Or conference talks about Grace, Love, etc were matched with policies that demonstrated the same.
Take pictures eating lunch with LGBT people. Tell the history of women giving blessings by the laying on of hands.
Demonstrate that they know how to save a life, before sending in the underlings.
(Admin Note) – I know I am wound up. I am taking a few days off. It’s best for all of us.Mom3, it sounds like you have multiple personal, impactful experiences that have colored your feelings about this. I am sorry for your pain. Nibbler said: It sounds like a better rescue than most. The ultra orthodox are going to believe that people that don’t show up to church are genuinely in need of rescuing ( meanwhile I wish someone would rescue me from church, not to church ;)) so rescue plans will always be on the menu. It’s the house specialty. :clap: My new favorite quote of all time! (Myboldadded.) Roy wrote:
Beefster wrote:
I’ve opposed the “casserole patrol” rescue mission since before my FC- probably on my mission.
I personally love receiving casseroles during hardship. #1 I get a casserole!
:thumbup: #2 I feel that the casserole represents the love and concern of our ward community. It is perhaps one of the most tangible manifestations of the community “giving back” for your contributions.
For the record, I’m not actually against giving casseroles to ward members in need. What Iamagainst is using superficial things like bringing casseroles and cookies to inactive members to try to get them to come to church. Thatis what I’m referring to as the “Casserole Patrol” Roy wrote:
Beefster wrote:
And considering that my trajectory may soon put me on the receiving end of that… Yeah. Not sure how I’m going to deal with that. Probably with sarcasm.
Continuing from my last point, If I (who have gone through an FC) am the more aware in the situation then it falls to me to be the most responsible. I would do this by being a good host to visitors in my home. I would smile and nod at the appropriate moments. I would build on common beliefs to the extent possible. I would express vague hope, humility, and willingness to change towards positive goals. I might deflect or gently rebuff commitments that will likely not work for me at the present time. I would part with friendly words and a good handshake (or hug if appropriate).
Maybe it won’t be sarcasm so much as humor. I plan on being nice. But also genuine.Old Timer wrote:
So, it was 7/8 good-excellent and 1/8 bad.My advice: Anything that is 87.5% good is good. Focus on that simple fact.
That is not what the church teaches about R rated movies. If the movie is 99% good, but that one scene is bad, then its just like having a little bit a poop in your brownie. See this excellent blog post on Poop Cookies
here at BCCSo what, Sheldon. That has nothing whatsoever to do with this situation. Nobody here is saying we need to follow the Church’s example regarding that issue in every aspect of our lives. Sheldon wrote:
That is not what the church teaches about R rated movies. If the movie is 99% good, but that one scene is bad, then its just like having a little bit a poop in your brownie.
I know you are being a little bit “Sheldon” here but I think you have a good point.
1) Almost 100% of ground beef in the US contains fecal contamination (generally safe with proper cooking) and yet Mormons continue eating hamburgers. Why is it that this metaphor about food and poop that we eat does not apply to food (and poop) that we actually eat?
2) I recently attended Gospel Principles class and the lesson was on honesty. The lesson said that God was 100% honest and expected that of us as well. What ensued were discussions of how little white lies and business practices that exaggerate how good of a deal the customer is getting are not honest. Two women confessed to the extreme guilt they feel when someone gives them too much change (even if they only discover it after they get home). I remember thinking that these sure are impossibly high standards for new members – heck they are impossibly high for me!!!
👿 Anyway, I made the point that we should not equate telling a little white lie to “bearing false witness”. One is fairly inconsequential while the other can ruin peoples lives.3) Finally, as Voltaire said, “Perfect is the enemy of good.” I reject perfection in my effort to admire what is good around and within me.
Old Timer wrote:
So what, Sheldon. That has nothing whatsoever to do with this situation. Nobody here is saying we need to follow the Church’s example regarding that issue in every aspect of our lives.
I think Sheldon’s making a pretty solid point. The Church claims perfection and asks for perfection. Any faults in it boil down to “the weakness of men, whom if you judge you are a fool who will go to hell.” (I’m paraphrasing). One of the things I struggle with, is continuing to attend and have a level of faith in an organization which… would condemn the poop in another brownie, while failing to acknowledge its own.
Nobody’s saying that here, but we’re an odd bunch of Mormons.
No, it’s not a valid point. Also, if we are trying to be accurate, which is important, the Church doesn’t claim perfection, it doesn’t demand perfection, and it doesn’t teach that anybody who isn’t perfect is a fool who is headed to Hell. Accuracy is important in discussions like this.
I get the point, but it is completely irrelevant to the point of the post and my own comment that Sheldon quoted. Rejecting something that is 7/8 good is not a solid way to live – unless the other 1/8 is toxic, which could be the case for mom3 in this instance but wasn’t obvious when I commented. “The other 1/8 is toxic,” is a valid response. “7/8 good is not a standard the Church accepts in some situations,” is not a good, productive way to respond. It is a recipe for anger and bitterness, and it would ruin lives completely if applied to all situations – including many marriages and jobs.
The point is that we shouldn’t base our decisions about one situation on what the Church teaches about other situations. Frankly, I am certain everyone here agrees with that.
Old Timer wrote:
I get the point, but it is completely irrelevant to the point of the post and my own comment that Sheldon quoted. Rejecting something that is 7/8 good is not a solid way to live – unless the other 1/8 is toxic, which could be the case for mom3 in this instance but wasn’t obvious when I commented. “The other 1/8 is toxic,” is a valid response. “7/8 good is not a standard the Church accepts in some situations,” is not a good, productive way to respond. It is a recipe for anger and bitterness, and it would ruin lives completely if applied to all situations – including many marriages and jobs.The point is that we shouldn’t base our decisions about one situation on what the Church teaches about other situations. Frankly, I am certain everyone here agrees with that.
I understand what you are saying Curt. I agree that Sheldon’s comments was a tangent/segway at best and a “thread derailment” at worst. It was in a sense comparing apples and oranges (evaluating the relative merits of a conference vs. questionable church analogies about movies with objectionable material).
Old Timer wrote:
I get the point, but it is completely irrelevant to the point of the post and my own comment that Sheldon quoted.
I agree. any further discussion of R rated movies and poop analogies should take place in their own dedicated thread.
Quote:unless the other 1/8 is toxic, which could be the case for mom3 in this instance
Toxic was not the case.
Fully worn down and with no one to vent to? Definitely. My husband is out of the country on business. The Rescue Topic has reached it’s pinnacle for me. I won’t let it be toxic.
The next time I hear it, I will excuse myself. There are plenty of other things to do in the Kingdom.
I am grateful I could have had a crappy day here. To rage, vent, and be pi**ed helped a lot.
Now I will sit back and watch Sean Connery and Kevin Costner in the Untouchables. Blood, guts, language and all. Good night.
Thanks for the update, mom. Great movie; great plan.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.