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Old-Timer wrote:
I just don’t demand them
I fully agree. Demanding apologies does not seem to be effective in bringing about the type of reconcilliation that would be the ideal.
Old-Timer wrote:I would add that we are commanded to forgive whether we receive an apology or not. In that regard, apologizing has nothing to do with forgiveness. It has more to do with repentance, and repentance and forgiveness are very different things.
I would like amplify what Mom3 said though — apologies help the medicine go down. Yes, there are massive personal benefits to unconditional forgiveness — the major one being personal peace, but I will say this — the person who is interested in developing their character AND making this world a more Zionic place, will apologize regularly for their mistakes.
And they make it much easier on people like myself and others who, for the life of them, have trouble letting go of past errors — until time fades them away. An apology restores trust, lubricates relationships, and promotes a peaceful community. So, in addition to easing the suffering of the victim, apologies helps promotes the kind of society that I would like to live in.
I appreciate apologies when they happen, although I tend to place a higher value on freely given apologies rather than apologies that come out when the person faces tangible consequences — like going to prison, threat of losing their job, etcetera. However, any apology is better than no apology.
I don’t demand them either — I think demanding apologies is evidence the soul is screaming to have its pride touched up, but I certainly appreciate them when they come.
When I was in the Army apologizing was not something leaders did. I also spent much of my military time as a member of the Church and I was in quite a few church units with a preponderance of servicemembers. Apologizing was not something often done. I remember being taught in my early days in the Church that apologizing was part of the repentance process. You recognize you did something wrong and you make restitution if you wronged someone. Apologizing was part of restitution. I can’t find it church publications though. So is apologizing something the Church teaches? I don’t know. Should apologies be made? I think so.
I think an apology shows humility and it can soften the reaction of the person who was hurt. It makes a big difference in my life in repairing relationships. I have many family members who hold grudges and I think if either party offered an apology it would start the forgiving process, but without it the grudge festers. I remember as a teen I would quickly apologize to my friends and our problem would be resolved whereas they would write notes back and forth to each other and drag out problems. On a slightly off topic, this post reminds me of my stance on giving forgiveness. I think that some offenses are so painful we don’t have to work on forgiving the offender in this life. I’m thinking of something like an abuser or rapist or murderer of a loved one. While I think the atonement can be used to find relief from the suffering, I think some forgiveness is beyond our human ability.
SilentDawning wrote:I don’t demand them either — I think demanding apologies is evidence the soul is screaming to have its pride touched up, but I certainly appreciate them when they come.
I know some people that are very vocal in their complaining about seemingly everything. They are good caring people deep down, they just seem to have a negative view on things and enjoy sharing. Perhaps it touches up their pride. Heaven knows I have my pride too.
Sometimes people demand apolagies because of the depth of their pain. We considered filing a medical malpractice lawsuit at one time. That is perhaps a legal way to demand an apology. I was hurt when an LDS coworker suggested that suing would be pointless. Yes, it won’t change what happened and yes we ultimately decided against suing in our case but there is an appropriate place for lawsuits in our society.
So I guess I am conflicted.
In a personal relationship I believe in being open, honest, tactful, caring, quick to apologise and quick to forgive.
In dealing with major grievances against a faceless corporation – sometimes demanding an apology or suing for one could be appropriate.
Certainly not a black or white issue for me.
Roy wrote:Certainly not a black or white issue for me.
Me, either.
journeygirl wrote:I think an apology shows humility….an apology it would start the forgiving process, but without it the grudge festers. I remember as a teen I would quickly apologize to my friends and our problem resolved…
I agree. It’s a quite simple and elementary principle really.
Roy wrote:Sometimes people demand apolagies because of the depth of their pain.
All too often apologies are being demanded for whatever the cause. Just as forgiveness, apologies should not be to the expectation of the offended and will come in due time. I think too many expect an apology and when one is not received, the error is then placed on the one who has the expectation. An interesting topic indeed!cwald wrote:journeygirl wrote:I think an apology shows humility….an apology it would start the forgiving process, but without it the grudge festers. I remember as a teen I would quickly apologize to my friends and our problem resolved…
I agree. It’s a quite simple and elementary principle really.
I think so too, JG and cwald.
Yonni wrote:Roy wrote:Sometimes people demand apolagies because of the depth of their pain.
All too often apologies are being demanded for whatever the cause. Just as forgiveness, apologies should not be to the expectation of the offended and will come in due time. I think too many expect an apology and when one is not received, the error is then placed on the one who has the expectation. An interesting topic indeed!There is definitely something to this other side of the coin in demanding or expecting apology as well. This is far more faceted than I expected when I posted the topic. It has been interesting, thank you all.
Here’s another facet: in schools a “punishment” is often that the student has to write an apology. I’ve always been opposed to the idea and refused such apologies because they aren’t usually sincere, they’re forced and meaningless. For the student I don’t think it brings about humility so much as humiliation, which are two different things.
What makes the topic tricky is differing expectations. One person sees the need for an apology, but the person / organization who is the offender might not see that same need. The two can be equally sincere, and even equally right based on their own perception, but the differing perceptions bring differing conclusions. Thus, a demand by one – often as a result of a total unwillingness to accept the legitimacy of another’s point of view – can hinder forgiveness and deepen and prolong confrontation and bitterness. This is true more of the demander of an apology than of the target of the demand, since the target might not recognize a need for forgiveness.
That is why I believe an apology has nothing to do with forgiveness, at the most basic level, other than being a medicine that can help begin healing – IF the demander accepts it, which isn’t automatic. The desire to accept an apology still must be present for forgiveness to occur. If that desire is missing, the offended will find a way to dismiss the apology – no matter how sincere the apologizer is. It happens all the time.
I learned a lot about empathy from my mother-in-law, when she heard someone complain of troubles she would say ‘I’m sorry that happened to you’. She wasn’t apologizing for anyone else but the depth that it brought to the hearer. Old-Timer wrote:What makes the topic tricky is differing expectations.
One person sees the need for an apology, but the person / organization who is the offender might not see that same need. The two can be equally sincere, and even equally right based on their own perception, but the differing perceptions bring differing conclusions. Thus, a demand by one – often as a result of a total unwillingness to accept the legitimacy of another’s point of view – can hinder forgiveness and deepen and prolong confrontation and bitterness. This is true more of the demander of an apology than of the target of the demand, since the target might not recognize a need for forgiveness.
That is why I believe an apology has nothing to do with forgiveness, at the most basic level, other than being a medicine that can help begin healing – IF the demander accepts it, which isn’t automatic. The desire to accept an apology still must be present for forgiveness to occur. If that desire is missing, the offended will find a way to dismiss the apology – no matter how sincere the apologizer is. It happens all the time.
I really agree with Ray’s comments. The conflict comes from different perspectives and that leads to different expectations. I therefore suggest that a major step towards resolution is the ability to really listen to each other and try to empathize. Doing this will help the offender understand the benefit of an apology AND help the offended take steps of forgiveness.
If we stubbornly maintain that our position is the only perspective or expectation that matters then true reconcilliation is vitually impossible.
I had an interesting experience today. The US Rep from this area came to campus and spoke to students, faculty and staff. It was a wonderful presentation, and it included a question and answer session at the end. In that session, in response to a question about working with people who see things radically differently, he said:
Quote:I don’t demand apologies, and I don’t apologize with a goal in mind. There is no power or depth to a forced apology, nor is there power in a conditional one. People have different views, and I don’t believe anyone should have to apologize for that –
and, too often, those who demand an apology are demanding people see things the same way they see things. What he said gets to the heart of my own concern about the way apologies are approached so often. Again, I believe in apologies, but I agree with him:
Apologies given in response to a demand and apologies given with a desired objective in mind are equally insincere. I want apologies to be given freely and unconditionally or not given at all, since I believe those given freely and unconditionally are the only ones that actually change behavior – both of the offender and the offended. If an apology is given but behavior doesn’t change, the end result is worse than before the apology was given.
Very good thought Ray. But I can still WISH the church would SINCERELY give some apologies.
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