The source of true happiness

[Anonymous]

Featherina wrote:

I don’t understand why there would be such an uproar over the simple conclusion that “what matters is the kind of person you have become.”

Did they want you to say, “what matters most is how many endowment & initiatory sessions you attended, how many times you took the sacrament, if you said Thee & Thou in your prayers or not, kept a year’s supply, did your genealogy…”?

I know that faith without works is dead… but I also know that God cares more about the heart than talk, routines or appearances.

It was a long time ago, but I remember one person saying I was de-emphasizing that it was also about making/keeping covenants and participating in ordinances that were given by authority.

Quote:

At first, I had a hard time with shame about not wearing garments, like I wasn’t keeping my covenant.

Now, I see it that it wasn’t my choice – I had no idea what I was getting into before I was told to promise/make a covenant. That’s not fair.

I tend to agree. Some of the commitments one makes are HEAVY — much heavier than at baptism. Yet, you only find out about them in the temple, after family, friends are gathered to be there for your special moment!! Granted, you are allowed to withdraw by your own free will or choice, but that is before the ceremony really gets going, or you know the implications.

Also, one person commented that regarding tithing — one reason given for it was “keeping covenants made at baptism”. Thing is, many members were eight years old and knew nothing about the implications of tithing for the rest of their life. Is it fair to hold them to such a standard for their entire life when they have no income, and don’t understand the ways of the world?

You have me thinking…

[Anonymous]

SilentDawning wrote:

It was a long time ago, but I remember one person saying I was de-emphasizing that it was also about making/keeping covenants and participating in ordinances that were given by authority.

Maybe, they considered it like the importance of keeping things sacred, not casting pearls before swine (which I now translate to mean – to protect illusions that have given us hope before we’re able to handle the other aspects of truth regarding it.) Yet, I believe that Jesus did not want the focus to be rituals or ordinances… He wanted the focus to be spiritual development within us.- Luke 17:21

“Man is made for the Sabbath, not the sabbath made for man.”

Quote:

I tend to agree. Some of the commitments one makes are HEAVY — much heavier than at baptism. Yet, you only find out about them in the temple, after family, friends are gathered to be there for your special moment!! Granted, you are allowed to withdraw by your own free will or choice, but that is before the ceremony really gets going, or you know the implications.

Also, one person commented that regarding tithing — one reason given for it was “keeping covenants made at baptism”. Thing is, many members were eight years old and knew nothing about the implications of tithing for the rest of their life. Is it fair to hold them to such a standard for their entire life when they have no income, and don’t understand the ways of the world?

Good points, SD.

I believe knowledge is power – & is of God. I don’t think temple ordinances should be so secret. I think people should know what they’re getting into & have some ideas of symbolic meaning. It would help a lot of people, including the church as an organization.

I think for some, the temple experience can be uplifting & worth the price (both money & effort).

For some, it can actually interfere with one’s relationship with God – by creating fear & shame instead of love & inspiration.

[Anonymous]

SilentDawning, said the following:

Quote:

Some of the commitments one makes are HEAVY — much heavier than at baptism. Yet, you only find out about them in the temple, after family, friends are gathered to be there for your special moment!! Granted, you are allowed to withdraw by your own free will or choice, but that is before the ceremony really gets going, or you know the implications

Does anyone know a member who “withdrew” from a temple endowment because they couldn’t make the commitment?

I’ve been around for awhile & don’t remember hearing of anyone ever withdrawing.

I wonder what would happen then?

Mike from Milton.

[Anonymous]

Featherina wrote:

SilentDawning wrote:

It was a long time ago, but I remember one person saying I was de-emphasizing that it was also about making/keeping covenants and participating in ordinances that were given by authority.

Maybe, they considered it like the importance of keeping things sacred, not casting pearls before swine (which I now translate to mean – to protect illusions that have given us hope before we’re able to handle the other aspects of truth regarding it.) Yet, I believe that Jesus did not want the focus to be rituals or ordinances… He wanted the focus to be spiritual development within us.- Luke 17:21

“Man is made for the Sabbath, not the sabbath made for man.”

Quote:

I tend to agree. Some of the commitments one makes are HEAVY — much heavier than at baptism. Yet, you only find out about them in the temple, after family, friends are gathered to be there for your special moment!! Granted, you are allowed to withdraw by your own free will or choice, but that is before the ceremony really gets going, or you know the implications.

Also, one person commented that regarding tithing — one reason given for it was “keeping covenants made at baptism”. Thing is, many members were eight years old and knew nothing about the implications of tithing for the rest of their life. Is it fair to hold them to such a standard for their entire life when they have no income, and don’t understand the ways of the world?

Good points, SD.

I believe knowledge is power – & is of God. I don’t think temple ordinances should be so secret. I think people should know what they’re getting into & have some ideas of symbolic meaning. It would help a lot of people, including the church as an organization.

I think for some, the temple experience can be uplifting & worth the price (both money & effort).

For some, it can actually interfere with one’s relationship with God – by creating fear & shame instead of love & inspiration.

I think if you make the temple ordinances and experience public (more public than what you get on You Tube, it removes the carrots associated with the TR questions, unfortunately. Never gonna happen….and Mike, no, I’ve never heard of anyone withdrawing before making the heavy commitments. Perhaps people have done it at the outset, before the heavy principles are shared, but I’ve never heard it happening later in the session after the person realizes what they are getting into.

[Anonymous]

I thought I would comment on times I felt truly happy:

1. On my mission after a good night of teaching, I would come home with my mind completely free of worry, depression, or fearful thoughts.

2. When I hired someone to teach me to build guitars, and I created a couple successfully.

3. When I wrote a song, and then a band played it. I felt like the father of creation.

4. Times with my daugther when there is compassion and love and intelligence and peace in our conversation.

5. One day when I spent the whole day with my family, got along very well with my wife, and had no cares about my work.

6. The first time I gigged with a professional jazz band of university trained musicians after self-teaching myself to play jazz. I felt totally fulfilled that I had

learned to play an instrument from ground zero and was able to rub shoulders with such capable musicians.

Interesting how only one of these is a Church experience…but does lend credence to the idea that preaching the gospel can bring joy — at least, if you truly believe in what you are doing…

I’d love to hear your joyful moments.

[Author]

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