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It’s official. Mormons have just as many rules as the Pharisees.
Not really, since I think you’ve stretched the definition and the time frame too much to make it apples-to-apples, but I appreciate the effort it took to compile the list and the conversation it produced.
cwald wrote:SamBee wrote:
I do think there’s a whole range of issues here though Cwald.At one end we have, “thou shalt not kill”, and at the other “don’t get two sets of earrings”. I don’t think these are equal at all.
Exactly the point — and yet I would dare say that at church we hear more about earrings than we do about murder. Why do you suposse that is the case? I would dare say that we hear more about not drinking tea and wearing white shirts, than we do about murder.
Possibly because – thank God – few of us ever get involved in murder. It happens regularly in our world, but I don’t think the church harbors that many of them.
I’m not saying this because I agree with the other stuff. White shirts are a nonsenses, IMHO, and so’s the earring stuff. Tea, well there’s arguably health issues, so that’s a different ballgame.
This exactly why I love what the Savior said when the Pharisees asked him what is the greatest commandment. There are only two and upon this hang all the laws and the prophets. I can’t remember a bunch of rules anyway…all I ask myself now is “What is the most loving thing to do in this situation.? And my favorite scriptures in the New Testament are in 1 Corinathians 13…about how you can have all knowledge and prophecy etc, but if you don’t have love you have nothing. I still think many people are blurring the line between “council” and “commandments”. If I tell my daughter about how going to college opens up options for her in life, that isn’t the same as me saying she HAS to go to college. If the prophet tells a story about a young man that prepared and served an honorable mission and how it blessed his family, that doesn’t mean that is the only acceptable path in life. Brown, I am with you. It seems “commandments” is being used liberally. However, this is often done at church…and I’ve experienced it with my kids being treated a certain way for Strength of Youth Standards, because the message at church seems to be if the prophet said it, or the Church is promoting it, you can wordsmith whether you call it a commandment or a guideline, but most people at church say there is no difference. Most feel you are more faithful if you treat them all as commandments straight from the Lord, and you must be exact with obedience.
I disagree. I think our rational minds need to help us responsibly listen to guidance, and know which are true commandments and which may be of lesser importance…and if I have capacity to do all, I should do all…but when I don’t have that capacity, I should prioritize and hope the spirit guides me as I do so…and remember there are some things that are good, better, and best…and focus on the best.
Actually, that talk (“Good, Better, Best”) and Pres. Uchtdorf’s recent talk about how we tend to make commandments of counsel and elevate culture to eternal law are two of the reasons I take a list like this with a HUGE grain of salt. As I’ve said, I don’t like the natural tendency toward a Pharisaical outlook, and I do think we tend toward that outlook naturally as a collective group in the Church – but so does every other group in existence over time, and we have plenty of counsel from the global leadership advising us not to go there (along with the “unwritten order of things” message, as well). My point is that “The Church” is less Pharisaical than “the church” in many locations – as well as that too many of the things on this list are out-dated and shouldn’t be on it.
I agree Ray. In fact, directly from Elder Oak’s talk in 2007 (Good, Better, Best), the Church leadership is fairly harsh on local leaders and church members that adding to our burden and rules and commandments is NOT the objective. In fact, they call the commandments “Good” – because those alone do not save us, and they are NOT what is most important to us. I believe this was the warning to the Pharisees. It is not that obeying commandments is bad, it is realizing those are not the things that are what we need in our lives.
Quote:It is good to belong to our Father in Heaven’s true Church and to keep all of His commandments and fulfill all of our duties. But if this is to qualify as “best,” it should be done with love and without arrogance.
That is why Christ prioritized the 2 Great Commandments above all else.
Yeah, and it’s figuring out which of the “commandments” are “His” that is the kicker. 😈 I think for some, a checklist provides a sort of comfort. All I have to do is check of all these boxes and I am saved. For me, it makes God seem like a petty nit-picker and my heart tells me that isn’t likely.
Brown wrote:my heart tells me that isn’t likely.
:thumbup: I have (2) thoughts on this subject: 1. This list seems to be an LDS “Talmud”. Similar to the Jewish collection of laws that govern their faith.
2. Imagine the interview for a Temple Recommend.
Boggles the mind.
Mike from Milton.
Quote:2. Imagine the interview for a Temple Recommend.
Yeah, that’s the main reason I can’t take the list too seriously. There is a HUGE disconnect, imo, between the list and the actual “requirements” of membership and temple atendance. Those are remarkably small, when all is said and done.
When you can’t concentrate on the life & sacrific of Jesus Christ then, follow rules. Mike from Milton.
I might say, instead: Quote:When you focus on the life and sacrifice of Jesus, you understand better which rules are important to follow and which one are nothing more than man-made rules.
I’m enjoying reading the discussion. The conclusions you guys are coming to are just the right ones and exactly the reason why I compiled the list in the first place. The entire list @ http://afterallwecando.com should be rejectedGal 3:10-13 wrote:
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Conclusion:
If you want to live by the law you will be cursed by the law. Why the church keeps piling on more and more rules is beyond me. No tattoos, no piercings, the list goes on and everyone is on the edge of their seat at GC waiting to hear what new rule to obey. Forget the law live by faith!
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