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Old Timer wrote:
One of my favorite things about Elder Holland is his openness over the past few years to talk about his own depression and encourage people to seek professional help.One of my favorite things about Utah is its high usage rate of antidepressants – since it shows that the overall culture is not dismissive of medication to help treat issues like depression.
We have a long way to go in that regard (seeking professional counseling and accepting medication for lots of issues), but we are nowhere near the back of the pack in that regard – or even the middle, when it comes to religious organizations.
I think it is a combination of openness to issues that those people have – but I am not entirely certain that there isn’t a measure of culture being the “straw that broke the camel’s back” – in this case, causing some of the stresses that lead to people requesting medication and/or counseling.
SamBee wrote:
I have said this elsewhere but is seems to be the thing in modern medicine to avoid discussing the external causes of mental illness. I think we favor doping people up over dealing with the environment or social setting.
I agree. It is cheaper to produce a pill to take (in terms of financial, emotional, and time resources) – and put the responsibility jointly into the hands of the person taking the medicine (or their caregiver) and the doctors (and sometimes pharmacists). Patients figure out how to pay for the pills, what the pills do to them (vs what the pills should do), and spend the time/mental resources researching outcomes, options, and evaluating what happened – but the doctor is spending very little, and any insurance support is spending as little as possible resource-wise. Therapy/Counseling/Coaching require a lot more time, emotional investment, and a variable amount of financial resources to show gain. Things are getting better with online support groups and email – you can more easily connect to people in similar situations and DIY solutions already pre-tested as it were.
The other problem is where and what do we standardize mental health education? Everyone gets a dose of it as a survival byproduct of high school and more in college. Do we make it mandatory to teach mental health along with driver’s ed? Do we expect parents to teach this along with everything else (which is currently what theoretically happens – assuming the parents know the best practices to teach)? We don’t have a great track record of having churches teach mental health (though progress is being made).
One of the things that gives me pause recently is we are finding all kinds of genetic correlations between mental illness and the brain – does that mean we are going to be researching ways to replace/pre-engineer/modify brain parts? I can see where that would give a measure of relief. However, where is the line drawn between “fixing” things so that the brain conforms to a standard, and prematurely taking away a person’s agency/challenges/test for this existence?
SamBee wrote:
A friend of mine is currently having massive mental health issues. He has had them his entire life, but to a big degree his external life has affected him. His mother treats him badly – witnessed it myself, and his work is always piling pressure on him. Now his wife has left him, taken the kids away and is threatening divorce. It’s no wonder he has some issues – and putting him on pills won’t get rid of any of these.
I can relate. In the last 3 years when my responsibilities exceeded my capacity, I had issues. I started being able to do less without being overwhelmed, and dealing with actual physical anxiety attacks periodically. It wasn’t just 1 thing – and it wasn’t really my brain. Things have gotten better due to circumstances changing – some of them were choices I made (I did try anxiety medication which helped on some levels, I did work with a counselor for 4 sessions and learned a lot), some of them are re-framing my narrative (accepting that I get anxious now and acknowledging the resource drain), some of them are re-setting my expectations. However, a big part of how things got better is that time passed and my body returned to a more stable non-postpartum pregnancy state.
SamBee wrote:
The USA is riddled with medication. It has probably been the best thing for stalling social change available.Is it any wonder people turn to certain things to get away from this?
I think people have always turned to specific things to get away from the situation. I think in some cases, medication is a good thing. My husband’s stimulating ADHD medication has done worlds for us – it has helped him to increase his capacity as an individual and given him tools to succeed with. It stabilized a foundation for him to build from. I am super happy that his medication is regulated by experts to ensure purity of medication, and that he is accountable to a doctor every 3 months. And yes, the 1 day he did not have medicine to take was sheer hell for him and for us – and he is smart and responsible enough not to do that again (and yes, I provide support to ensure that as well). Side Note: The doctor had miscounted the number of pills we would need because he had been putting in prescriptions for 30 days, and we had had a consecutive number of 31 day months which threw off the count – which was not caught by my husband or myself in time to correct it.]
We are lucky – what if we didn’t have the insurance to pay for the medication – would I be comfortable with him finding similar medication out on the street? Is the line between someone who takes medicine responsibly and a drug addict a label/description/diagnosis, piece of paper and a visit to a doctor?
My impression of the entire mental health situation is that it is slowly getting better and better. Yes there are many situations where people (Dr’s, parents, etc.) are way to quick to just “give a pill and we are done.” There are also cases of severe mental illness where the major issue is people won’t say on their meds (don’t like the side effects or they just don’t think they need them) when that gives them the best chance of the most mental stability. There are those that can’t afford the meds they need.
I am in my 50’s and when I was born, lobotomies were still being performed.
It is still a huge problem directly for millions of people and many more of the relatives/friends are effected also, but I see progress.
Western society is getting better at acknowledging mental health issues, but is still supplying many of the scenarios to create it. What will happen, for example when all those self-driving cars Google etc are working on replace thousands of jobs? It’s not going to be pretty. There will be many more depressed ex-drivers, but probably no solution offered up.
Let me be crystal clear: 1) I agree completely that our modern Weatern culture relies too heavily on medication in too many situations. However, medicine often is the only short-term, immediate help available for lots of people, and it is a wonderful option to help while people work on other coping mechanisms.
2) Utah has the highest birth rate in the USA. Utah County’s birth rate a couple of decades ago was twice the national average, and I’m sure it still is comparatively high. Post-partum depression is a serious issue. A big part of Utah’s anti-depressant rate is tied directly to that issue. I have NO problem with that usage. My only concern is when women feel pressured to have more children, more quickly, than they would choose on their own – but post-partum depression hits first-time mothers just as hard.
3) If I had to choose between the acceptance of now and the rejection of when I was a child, I would choose today’s acceptance in a heartbeat, every time.
4) We are arguing now from a position of privilege and luxury. We can afford to talk about the need to cut back, because we have the luxury of not losing the availability or general acceptance. Many people around the world, including in the dominant Weatern countries, don’t have that luxury. I support making it so they have the privilege we enjoy, then talking about how to moderate properly.
I have heard elsewhere that high altitude can cause depression as well, and that Utah is actually high enough up to have this affect. Yep, Sam, that is correct. It also has lower lengths of sunshine, due to the mountains on the eastern side of the major population centers, cold winters, and air inversion issues that also impact depression. Seasonal depression is a major factor. Depression in the western mountain states, overall, is higher than most other areas in the USA.
This is an interesting discussion. I also suffer with depression as well as anxiety and meds have definitely helped me, even though the mild side effects drive me nuts sometimes. Well, I knew the amount of sunshine could affect depression, but I never knew elevation could affect it too. Interesting. Ilovechrist77 wrote:
This is an interesting discussion. I also suffer with depression as well as anxiety and meds have definitely helped me, even though the mild side effects drive me nuts sometimes. Well, I knew the amount of sunshine could affect depression, but I never knew elevation could affect it too. Interesting.
I suspect it is to do with oxygen levels. If hemoglobin cannot process it as quickly, it slows down the system. Compound this with today’s sedentary indoor lifestyle, particularly in winter and you have a problem.
I’ve highlighted one part as it is often blamed on Mormonism! https://www.mensjournal.com/health-fitness/can-living-at-altitude-lead-to-depression-20141204/ Quote:Could you describe the Utah paradox?
Look at any survey published in the last 30 years, and you’ll see there’s a high quality of life associated with living in the mountains. At the same time, if you use the Center of Disease Control data, Utah leaves the nation behind in depression and suicide — there’s more suicidal acts, more antidepressant use.
The whole region of the Rocky Mountains has high rates of suicide.So how can it be that we love living there but we have more depression and suicide? We started to focus on the idea of thin air — that partial oxygen is less the higher you go in altitude. And people studying brain chemistry and looking at blood changes in high-level enthusiasts, see the phenomenon of hypoxia. Interplaying with the altitude issue affecting depression there is the related, but separate issue of suicide. Starting in 2008, there has been a huge increase of teen/young adult suicides. I do think Mormonism has some (the majority?) of the cause for that. Prop 8 was around 2008 and that is when the rhetoric of the church started talking much more about “family values” (read anti-gay marriage). I like to say that the altitude in Utah didn’t change starting in 2008, but the attitude did.
https://rationalfaiths.com/defending-proposition-8-its-time-to-admit-the-reasons/ ” class=”bbcode_url”> https://rationalfaiths.com/defending-proposition-8-its-time-to-admit-the-reasons/ You know what I think is a major contributor to the depression epidemic in Utah? That darned refinery just north of Salt Lake City. When that thing runs, the entire valley fills up with smog. I remember it raining mud more than a few times. There’s too many people living in that desert valley. dande48 wrote:
You know what I think is a major contributor to the depression epidemic in Utah? That darned refinery just north of Salt Lake City. When that thing runs, the entire valley fills up with smog. I remember it raining mud more than a few times. There’s too many people living in that desert valley.
I have never been to SLC, but I don’t doubt that can’t be good.
I used to go to elementary school near a big coal fire plant. Well it was actually about three miles away. You could have the clearest of sunny days and there would be this cloud hanging over the area. For a little boy it was not the best.
Hahah. And many people say the smog in LA was bad. Wow! SamBee wrote:
I’ve highlighted one part as it is often blamed on Mormonism!https://www.mensjournal.com/health-fitness/can-living-at-altitude-lead-to-depression-20141204/ Quote:Could you describe the Utah paradox?
Look at any survey published in the last 30 years, and you’ll see there’s a high quality of life associated with living in the mountains. At the same time, if you use the Center of Disease Control data, Utah leaves the nation behind in depression and suicide — there’s more suicidal acts, more antidepressant use.
The whole region of the Rocky Mountains has high rates of suicide.So how can it be that we love living there but we have more depression and suicide? We started to focus on the idea of thin air — that partial oxygen is less the higher you go in altitude. And people studying brain chemistry and looking at blood changes in high-level enthusiasts, see the phenomenon of hypoxia.
I doubt the altitude plays much of a role for me. I felt a lot better when I graduated and went back to Colorado (higher altitude than Utah). There are some confounding variables for sure, like exercising more, having a girlfriend, and finding a treatment that actually works reasonably well (folate supplements). But getting out of the cesspool of Provo was probably the biggest aspect of feeling better.Beefster wrote:I doubt the altitude plays much of a role for me. I felt a lot better when I graduated and went back to Colorado (higher altitude than Utah). There are some confounding variables for sure, like exercising more, having a girlfriend, and finding a treatment that actually works reasonably well (folate supplements). But getting out of the cesspool of Provo was probably the biggest aspect of feeling better.
Another variable might have to do with individual tendencies in levels of serotonin, dopamine, and cortisol. You might be somebody who benefits from higher dopamine whose serotonin is already ok.
http://www.scienceofrunning.com/2014/11/your-brain-on-altitude-how-altitude-can.html
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