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primarycolor wrote:
I have a question. Shouldn’t Mormons unequivocally support the right of Israel to exist?
Depends on what your definition of is, is.
Theologically and traditionally and, maybe even culturally, yes. I know when I’m in EQ, I get the distinct impression that the end is nigh. This, combined with the political religious rights’ zealous defense of the state of Israel, makes it feel like that support may seem inevitable.
I disagree strongly with the idea of “picking sides”. The issues and complications with the establishment of the state of Israel in 1948 and all of the subsequent problems, are so complex and transcend in their own way the idea of “preparing the way for the second coming” that it feels “un-christian” to act in the way that mainstream christianity treats the issue.
I’m fully aware that those issues and problems are actually what make people “feel” that this is the actual “preparation”, especially considering some of the apocalyptic images, etc. of the book of Revelation.
However…
I would point to the prophetic revelations of the coming of the “Savior” in the OT. There was a reason the Jews didn’t accept Christ as that “Savior” and it was mostly because he didn’t fit the “type”, as described in the OT. The literalist view of the OT is what kept the Jews from recognizing their Savior and it is this same literalist view of the book of Revelation that is pushing all of these things forward.
Careful what you wish for.
Swimordie wrote: “Theologically and traditionally and, maybe even culturally, yes. I know when I’m in EQ, I get the distinct impression that the end is nigh. This, combined with the political religious rights’ zealous defense of the state of Israel, makes it feel like that support may seem inevitable.”
Did you mean that the Elder’s Quorum members discuss the end times and have a “zealous” defense of Israel? Or were you combining EQ with political positions outside the faith (perhaps Evangelicals, “Christians,” politically right wing folks?)
Because, I don’t picture our LDS discussing Israel at all, in priesthood, Sunday School, conference, or where-ever. Back when I was in High School, after the 6-day war, when Israel had beaten Egypt, Jordan and Syria; “Exodus” had been popular at the movie theaters the decade before; WWII atrocities were still stinging, etc., yes, LDS talked about Israel back then. Cleon Skousen wrote “Fantastic Victory,” you could find it at your local Seventies book store. Israel was popular within LDS circles, they were another tribe in the house of Israel- just like us.
But now. No. You can’t convince me that it’s nothing but political correctness for LDS to shy away from talking up Israel. It’s more PC to worry about the Palestinians- who by the way have never relented on their vow to eliminate Israel. So if you ask me to be careful what I wish for, I’m not wishing for anything along the lines of the end of times. The reality of the hear and now is scary enough:
Not to go political (I don’t intend to). But doesn’t “death to…” “death to Israel…” “death to America…” Doesn’t death to, by both “chanting,” policy, and real time killing, rocket fire, suicide bombings, etc., not something in the future; doesn’t that deserve attention from the tribe of Ephraim right now? Seems like an easy call.
We try to not moderate discussions, but let’s not let this turn into a political debate – please. primarycolor wrote:Did you mean that the Elder’s Quorum members discuss the end times and have a “zealous” defense of Israel? Or were you combining EQ with political positions outside the faith (perhaps Evangelicals, “Christians,” politically right wing folks?)
Not the “zealous defense” part, so much. Just the fact that so many members align themselves with a political philosophy that is very vocally in defense of Israel.
I don’t want this to be political either. I’m just stating that the view of “wars, and rumors of wars”, etc. is very narrow. Someone called it presentism. Aligning present circumstances to make them fit just about any world view.
As an example, you hear people say all the time that the world is losing its morals, “there are no morals anymore”. From my perspective, we live in the most moral of any time in the history of man. The immorality of human-caused inequality rather by race, gender, or sexuality has been transformed immensely in the last generation alone. Wholesale bigotry, hate, and oppression are collapsing under the weight of the current morality of great swaths of peoples and nations.
This is truly a glorious period in the history of man, man is progressing “together”, more than ever. Yes, there’s still tons of problems but the progress made by humankind towards a more loving, hopeful, generous future for EVERYONE is astounding. imho
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