Theology of Star Wars

[Anonymous]

Episode 4: The Empire has created a planet destroying weapon, the Death Star. Anakin’s brother-in-law, who is raising Anakin’s son Luke, buys a couple of droids. One of the droids has a message for “Obi Wan Kenobi”. Luke goes out to find an old hermit mentor of his, “Ben Kenobi”, wondering if its the same person. Obiwan recaps a bit on the history of the empire, and how Darth Vader killed Anakin. ObiWan gives Luke the “call to adventure”. Luke rejects it. But then his foster family is murdered by the empire, so he goes anyway. Heading offworld, they get captured by the Death Star. They rescue a princess, who later turns out to be Luke’s twin sister. ObiWan is killed by Darth Vader. Through the lax computer security on the death Star, the droid R2-D2 hacks the system and lets them all escape. But a tracking system is put on their ship, and it reveals to the empire the main rebel base. Luke succeeds in blowing up the Death Star before the Death Star blows up the rebel base.

[Anonymous]

Episode 5: Luke is told he needs to go meet up with Yoda, the last living Jedi master. Luke’s friends, Princess Leia, Han Solo, and Chewie are all on the run from the empire. Luke finds Yoda, who acts like a crazy person to “test Luke’s patience”. He determines Luke is too brash to train, but then ghost Obiwan convinces him. Luke’s friends get captured by Darth Vader on Cloud City, and are tortured. Luke has visions of their pain and suffering, much like Anakin did all those years earlier. Yoda gives his Jedi spiel about self-sacrifice and giving up attachment. Luke disobeys Yoda, forsakes his training, and runs off to save his friends. He faces off with Darth Vader, who cuts off his hand, and reveals himself to really be Anakin, Luke’s father. Luke escapes through “self sacrifice”, jumping into a very deep hole. He’s shocked by this revelation, as Obiwan had in effect lied to him about his father. Luke has his hand replaced with an mechanical hand, becoming quite literally a little more like his father.

[Anonymous]

Episode 6: The empire build another planet destroying super weapon “Death Star”, bigger than the first. Luke confronts Obiwan about his “lie”. This dialog is important:

Quote:

Luke: I can’t do it, R2. I can’t go on alone.

Obi-Wan Kenobi: [voice emanates from nowhere] Yoda will always be with you. [reveals himself as a spirit walking nearby]

Luke: Obi-Wan. Why didn’t you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father.

Obi-Wan: Your father was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true, from a certain point of view.

Luke: [incredulously] A certain point of view?

Obi-Wan: Luke, you’re going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view. Anakin was a good friend. When I first knew him, your father was already a great pilot. But I was amazed how strongly the Force was with him. I took it upon myself to train him as a Jedi. I thought that I could instruct him just as well as Yoda. I was wrong.

Luke: There is still good in him.

Obi-Wan: He’s more machine now than man. Twisted and evil.

Luke: I can’t do it, Ben.

Obi-Wan: You cannot escape your destiny. You must face Darth Vader again.

Luke: I can’t kill my own father.

Obi-Wan: [resigned] Then the Emperor has already won. You were our only hope.

Luke: Yoda spoke of another.

Obi-Wan: The other he spoke of is your twin sister.

Luke: But I have no sister.

Obi-Wan: [nods] Mm. To protect you both from the Emperor, you were hidden from your father when you were born. The Emperor knew, as I did. If Anakin were to have any offspring, they would be a threat to him. That is the reason why your sister remains safely anonymous.

Luke: [with sudden realization] Leia. Leia’s my sister.

Obi-Wan: Your insight serves you well. Bury your feelings deep down, Luke. They do you credit, but they could be made to serve the Emperor.

Luke turns himself into the Empire. Darth Vader brings him before Emperor Palpatine. Luke refuses to fight Darth Vader, blatantly going against both the wishes of Palpatine, Yoda, and Obiwan (interesting). Darth Vader is able to discern through the force that Luke has a twin sister. He states that if Luke won’t join the “dark side”, “perhaps she will”. Luke is filled with absolute rage, out of love for his sister, and fights and defeats Darth Vader. But ultimately, out of love for his father, refuses to kill him. The emperor tortures Luke. Out of love for his son, Darth Vader/Anakin/”the Chosen One”, kills the emperor. They both escape. The Death Star is destroyed. Balance is brought to the force, and within both Anakin and Luke Skywalker. Balance was not achieved by routing out the “darkness”, but rather by harmonizing both the darkness and the light. The Jedi were wrong, to embrace only the light. The Sith were wrong, to embrace only the darkness. Both were destroyed, and the galaxy is allowed to start anew.

[Anonymous]

Episode 7: The cycle continues. Luke started a new Jedi order, which failed and was destroyed. He’s now gone into hiding, just like Yoda once did. A new “Empire” has risen up, with a new planet destroying weapon, bigger than the last. A girl who is strong in the force, and living on a desert planet, has a “call to adventure” due to a message from an “R2-D2 like” droid. She joins up with Han Solo, find’s luke’s lightsaber (which fell into a gas giant, last I checked), uncovers her incredible (literally I don’t believe it) force powers. They all destroy the planet destroying weapon. Same story, different characters. Cycles.

[Anonymous]

Episode 8: Rey goes off to find the last Jedi, Luke. He trains her, but she doesn’t really need it. She tells him that the Jedi were corrupt, that they allowed the dark side to become so powerful by only embracing the light, and after restarting the Jedi order and failing, Luke wants to do away with the Jedi religion entirely. Kylo Ren, the new Darth Vader, reaches out to Rey through the force. He has become disillusioned with the Sith as well. He believes they should “let the past die”. The cycle of pain and suffering, the war of light and dark, empires vs repblic continues. The only way to break the cycle is by doing away with the cause of the cycle, the dichotemy and endless war between “light and dark”. He “captures” Rey, and brings her before the new Emperor. Kylo then betrays his emperor and master, and overthrows the new “Empire”. He then asks Rey to join him in breaking the cycle, doing away with both the Jedi and the Sith, and bringing in a better world. She rejects him… and this is what I HATE about Disney and gender politics… because it turns out what the Jedi really needed was not a paradigm shift, but a “Mary Sue” woman in charge. So Kylo takes over the first order, and the cycle still continues.

[Anonymous]

No further Star Wars films should be made about the Death Star… We get it, it was a novel idea, and then you used it and kept on using it.

Now here’s an interesting question regarding the prequels… Was Palpatine always evil, or did he go down the Anakin route where his genuine concerns perverted him?

The best of the Disney films is Rogue One IMHO.

[Anonymous]

SO what does this mean to me? What’s the spiritual message and philosophy behind it all?

First, there’s the “Universal Myth”, the “Hero’s Journey” as Joseph Campbell puts it. The universal inspiring story arch, that speaks across generations, in all religions, most popular fiction, etc. I could go on and on about the symbolic significance of this…

[img=https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1b/Heroesjourney.svg/350px-Heroesjourney.svg.png][/img]

Second, you have Jungian psychology concept of the shadow. Each one of us have within us the “Dark Side”. The more we deny it, the more we push it down and try to hide it, the darker and more powerful it becomes. The Jedi, like with many religions, seek to supress and exterminate the dark side, which causes the diachotemy to become more powerful. In order to banish it, the Jedi forbid attachment, even to family. They forbid feelings of rage, hatred, fear, as well as feelings of love, because they are of the “dark side”.

However, it is only by embracing both the light and the dark side side, that the dark side can be subdued and “balance” established. It was Luke’s attachement to his friends, his love for his sister and father, his rage out of love for his sister, that he was able to defeat Darth Vader. It was also, through Vader’s attachments, his love that he first abandoned the Jedi ways, and later abandoned the Sith ways as well. As the “Chosen One” he brought balance to the force, not by banishing the dark as the Jedi thought, but by ending the diachotomy, and bringing both the light and dark into harmony with one another.

It also says a lot about religion, as well as good intentions. Democracy is destroyed and the evil empire rises, slowly, and through “good intentions”. The Jedi cause the Sith to rise, and herald in their own destruction through “good intentions”. Obiwan decieves Luke through “good intentions”. It is the epitome of “bad religion with good intentions”. The Sith, on the other hand, is “bad religion with bad intentions”. And funnily enough, both want the same thing from both Luke and Anakin; to fight. To destroy one another. To reject the other side. But neither is actually “good”. Both fall short in their denial of the other. Family, friends… that’s what’s most important.

The “Disney Sequels”, I like least of all, because Luke obviously does not embrace this revelation. He restarts the Jedi Order, in much the same way, and runs into the same problems. A new empire pops up, a planet killing weapon… Capitalism and democracy still sucks. Denying the dark side, embracing the light… his dark side becomes to power and he almost murders his nephew out of fear. His nephew, realizing the hatred and fear of his uncle destroys the Jedi, and becomes a Sith. But then Kylo regonizes the Sith have the same problems. Kylo’s master recognizes this. Cycles. “Darkness rises and light to meet it”. As DJ puts it:

Quote:

Finn, let me learn you something big: It’s all a machine, partner. Live free. Don’t join.

But then it goes ahead and flips itself. What the Jedi need to overcome the dark, is not the paradigm shift, it needs a powerful woman in charge. And THIS is what rubs me the wrong way. I feel the same way about women in the priesthood. Sure, if they are allowed to recieve the priesthood, and serve as bishops, stake presidents, and the Q15, great for them! But is it really going to fix anything? Same problems, different faces. When women achieve powerful positions, it’s no longer a powerful man taking advantage of the “little guy”, the men and women working on ground floor. It’s now a woman taking advantage. Having Hillary Clinton as the first female president would still lead to the same problems, and same corruption as before (not that Trump is better). Same issues. Nothing has changed.

I don’t like the Disney episodes, because the cycle continues. The cycle with the LDS Church and religion continues. A shift is needs. The cycle must be broken, or it will carry on forever. And yet… all we get are surface changes that perpetuate the status quo. Kylo is right. Of all the characters, I empathize and respect him the most. DJ is right. And yet, they’re portrayed as the “bad guys”? And “Mary Sue” Rey, perfect at everything, doesn’t need training, is the “good guy”? She can fix the Jedi Order, because she’s a flawless woman? I digress. I didn’t like it. I want change. I want a better world.

[Anonymous]

SamBee wrote:

No further Star Wars films should be made about the Death Star… We get it, it was a novel idea, and then you used it and kept on using it.

Yeah… because it’s not like here on earth we aren’t constantly making, and maintaining our own “Death Stars”, and trying endlessly to stop others from having them.

SamBee wrote:

Now here’s an interesting question regarding the prequels… Was Palpatine always evil, or did he go down the Anakin route where his genuine concerns perverted him?

I read the book Darth Plagus a few times. It was a very good book, covering the history of Palpatine, and his background, up through the ending of episode 1. Palpatine was more or less a rich kid, with some bad attributes, and parents who covered for him, to shield him from responsibility. He more or less had his traits exploited for the purposes of the Sith. But really, the Sith Religion has many contrasts with the Jedi. They both have “good intentions” and want to “make the galaxy a better place”, but attempt to achieve it through bad action, and try to solely embrace the “dark side”, and deny the “light”, which turns against them.

SamBee wrote:

The best of the Disney films is Rogue One IMHO.

I LOVED Rogue One. It’s my favorite, maybe including the original trilogy.

[Anonymous]

dande48 wrote:

SamBee wrote:

No further Star Wars films should be made about the Death Star… We get it, it was a novel idea, and then you used it and kept on using it.

Yeah… because it’s not like here on earth we aren’t constantly making, and maintaining our own “Death Stars”, and trying endlessly to stop others from having them.

I get what you’re saying and personally I wish nuclear weapons had never been invented, but as a plot device? There’s only so far you get with it. There are many other nasty weapons they could come up with – what about a Star Killer? That would be similar but make a star go nova and wipe out entire systems… That’s just a minor tweak but much more interesting.

Quote:

First, there’s the “Universal Myth”, the “Hero’s Journey” as Joseph Campbell puts it. The universal inspiring story arch, that speaks across generations, in all religions, most popular fiction, etc. I could go on and on about the symbolic significance of this…

While I was aware Lucas was influenced by Campbell, I didn’t realize they knew each other personally. (I also lazily assumed Lucas was a Jew, albeit a lapsed one, a common position in Hollywood. Turns out he’s a cultural Methodist… Much like Stephen King.) And there is an LDS connection here:

http://www.adherents.com/people/pl/George_Lucas.html

Quote:

Lucas was born and raised in a strongly Methodist family. After inserting religious themes into Star Wars he would eventually come to identify strongly with the Eastern religious philosophies he studied and incorporated into his movies, which were a major inspiration for “the Force.” Lucas eventually came to state that his religion was “Buddhist Methodist.” Gary Kurtz, a Latter-day Saint who had studied Comparative Religion extensively in college and on his own, was pivotal in introducing Lucas to Eastern religions (particularly Buddhism) and Native American religion, and discussing with Lucas how best to improve “Star Wars” by giving it a believable but sufficiently universal religious underpinning. Kurtz was the producer of “Star Wars” and “The Empire Strikes Back” and also did some work on the “Star Wars” screenplay.

[Anonymous]

SamBee wrote:

There are many other nasty weapons they could come up with – what about a Star Killer? That would be similar but make a star go nova and wipe out entire systems… That’s just a minor tweak but much more interesting.

They did exactly that in The Force Awakens. They even called it exactly that.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Starkiller_Base” class=”bbcode_url”>https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Starkiller_Base

It was still too similar a plot device IMO but that movie was more about the characters than the plot.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

Discussing the development of the idea of the Force, Lucas said: “The Force evolved out of various developments of character and plot. I wanted a concept of religion based on the premise that there is a God and there is good and evil. I began to distill the essence of all religions into what I thought was a basic idea common to all religions and common to primitive thinking. I wanted to develop something that was nondenominational but still had a kind of religious reality. I believe in God and I believe in right and wrong. I also believe that there are basic tenets which through history have developed into certainties, such as ‘thou shalt not kill.’ I don’t want to hurt other people. ‘Do unto others…’ is the philosophy that permeates my work

One can detect Judaeo-Christian elements in his thinking here, but the Force isn’t God as Christians quite conceive of. There isn’t really an outright mention of God in Star Wars (unlike in Indiana Jones where Jehovah, Kali and Shiva all get name checked.)

[Anonymous]

nibbler wrote:

SamBee wrote:

There are many other nasty weapons they could come up with – what about a Star Killer? That would be similar but make a star go nova and wipe out entire systems… That’s just a minor tweak but much more interesting.

They did exactly that in The Force Awakens. They even called it exactly that.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Starkiller_Base” class=”bbcode_url”>https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Starkiller_Base

It was still too similar a plot device IMO but that movie was more about the characters than the plot.

Thanks for that… Either I have not been paying attention or remembered it unconsciously!!!

[Anonymous]

I was going to say… man, you should be helping them write the stories. :thumbup:

[Anonymous]

nibbler wrote:

I was going to say… man, you should be helping them write the stories. :thumbup:

😆 I sometimes think I could come up with better story arcs, given my interest in literature and mythology. My script writing abilities are strictly amateur though…

Like I’ve said elsewhere, Frank Herbert’s Dune series – for all its faults – handles a lot of these issues well. It never really says whether there is a god, but there are attempts to make one, and he makes a lot of very interesting points about religion, not all of which I agree with, but which still make me think. Like Lucas, Herbert does re-use some old themes and ideas, but I think he’s far cleverer with how he blends them. Did I mention Lucas stole liberally from Herbert as well?

[Anonymous]

SamBee wrote:

😆 I sometimes think I could come up with better story arcs, given my interest in literature and mythology. My script writing abilities are strictly amateur though…

Like I’ve said elsewhere, Frank Herbert’s Dune series – for all its faults – handles a lot of these issues well. It never really says whether there is a god, but there are attempts to make one, and he makes a lot of very interesting points about religion, not all of which I agree with, but which still make me think. Like Lucas, Herbert does re-use some old themes and ideas, but I think he’s far cleverer with how he blends them. Did I mention Lucas stole liberally from Herbert as well?

I think one of the reasons Star Wars has done so fantastically well, and continued to be relevant (pre-Disney), was that George Lucas was very liberal in letting other people create content and write “canon”. He took from other people, other people took from him… his “bad ideas” were either written off (“Holiday Special”, anyone?), or embraced (i.e. Boba Fett from the “Holiday Special”), or expanded (Darth Maul is now freakin’ awesome!).

Speaking of Star Wars “weapons of mass destruction”, KoTOR2 had the “Mass Shadow Generator”, which would distort a planet’s gravity, sending ships crashing into its surface, and destroying everything thereon. They also had Darth Nihilus, who would use the force to consume the lifeforce from entire planets. Lots of great ideas out there, that George Lucas didn’t create, but embraced. He played to the strengths of others. Disney on the other hand, scrapped all that, and felt they could churn out whatever dribble they want and it’d sell well.

[Author]

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