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Hi All, I was a member of this forum two years ago, and this is my first post in between that time and now. I’m a 27 year old gay male. I am a convert to the Church, having joined in 2005. I left the Church around 2008 due to it’s dealings around Prop 8 and the like. To make a long story short, I went to a Church fireside last night. I’m not sure how many here are familiar with the Matis’ firesides, but there is a new group of people who is running them here. The Church has always held a special place in my heart ever since I joined, and the temple in particular has, always. Well, when I was at this fireside for gay/SSA/whatever you want to call it attracted Mormons, I got the distinct impression that I had unfinished business with the Church, in particular with the temple and the endowment ceremony. I had a temple recommend back in the day to do proxy baptisms, but I let that expire and I left the Church. Anyways, I felt a strong prompting last night that I needed to return to Church because of my unfinished business. I really feel like it is important for me to receive my endowment, and I feel like it is something the Lord has prompted me to do, or at least begin the process of doing. The problem is that I have along road ahead of me. I haven’t been ordained to the Melchedezik (spelling there?) priesthood yet, and every time I’ve asked about getting my endowment with a bishop, I’ve always run into a snag because I’m gay/SSA whatever you want to call it. I haven’t dated a guy in nearly nine months, so I’m not violating any chastity laws. I’m in a new ward now, and I’ve moved, though I haven’t visited with the Bishop at all. (I’m thinking about going to church for the first time in years this coming Sunday, since the ward is right across the street from me.) I never honestly thought I would be in this position again, and I’m scared. I got down on my knees last night and asked the question, WHY is it so important for me to receive my endowment, Lord? Why me? I don’t fully understand why but I do feel like it is something he is prompting me to do. I’ve always been a deeply spiritual person, and to me, the pinnacle of the Mormon experience is the endowment, at least for a gay man. Considering that I most likely won’t get married in this life time, it’s about as far as I can go. Again, I just don’t understand why, and I wish I did. I’ve been away from the Church now for a good four years, minus these firesides that happen once a month. I’ve gone out and explored other religions, thinking that I had found my spiritual home, when the Church and the temple seem to keep calling me back. In no way do I agree with everything the Church teaches, and I just pray this time around that I get an understanding Bishop who knows where my heart and mind is, and that I’m wanting to do the right thing. Firstly, I’m scared to death to go back, and secondly, I’m afraid I’ll get a crappy Bishop who says “No you can’t go to the temple because you’re a homo” type thing. At this point in my life, I’m nearly 28 years old. I understand the significance of the covenants I would be making and that essentially I would be working at this for a year, if not longer. There really isn’t anything stopping me at this point as, like I mentioned, I’m 28 years old, not going to marry, and am past the age to serve a mission. From a letter that was read a few years ago, it’s my understand that once you’ve gotten older and understand the significance of the temple endowment, it is your choice whether to get it or not. I remember some time ago that my Bishop read me a letter from the First Presidency advising people my age or so not to get their endowment as they wouldn’t be able to understand the commitments they were making. I do. I’ve thought about, “What happens after? Do I keep going for me? For others? Is this something I can deal with long term?” I’m sorry this is such a long post, but essentially I am scared as I’ve been burned by many Bishops in the past, and I want to do the right thing. Sorry for the rambling. Thoughts/suggestions/advice would be much appreciated.
I say if you feel drawn to it then absolutely go for it! I also hope you have an understanding bishop. I personally can’t think of any reason why a worthy adult would be turned away. I have known many single members that are endowed and regularly visit the temple for their own spirituality and to do the work for the dead. As far as I have know that has been highly encouraged. Wow, what a great story! If you are living the law of chastity, merely “being” gay shouldn’t prevent you, although with 32,000 bishops in the world, they can’t all be winners. How do you feel about the other TR interview questions? Do you have other misgivings? Congratulations on your desires. I pray you have one of the positive Bishop experiences as you head back. I grew up with the Matis family. I was wondering who runs the firesides now? Can you recall? Most of all – Godspeed.
I’m with Hawkggrl…as long as you are living the Law of Chastity and don’t have any significant unresolved sins that need confession, you should go in, ask for the endowment, answer the TR questions and then go through the process. Great introduction. The hardest part is going back to Church. Our mind projects alot. We anticipate the worse. You may find that God has something special for you there.
See how it feels. You maybe surprised.
I’ll be looking for you. (Assuming you live in WI)
Mike from Milton.
hawkgrrrl wrote:Wow, what a great story! If you are living the law of chastity, merely “being” gay shouldn’t prevent you, although with 32,000 bishops in the world, they can’t all be winners. How do you feel about the other TR interview questions? Do you have other misgivings?
I agree Hawkgrrrl, his SSA should not prevent him from the endowment. Unfortunatly many bishops know nothing of Mitch Mayne or Josh Johanson and rather then recognize the church’s current stance they hold to old policies/ dogma’s unknowingly. I would talk to him still and pray he is versed in current church policy.
My guess is 95 % of Bishops would treat this situation in a way that is way better then your anticipating
The most important adventures in life are preceded by that kind of spiritual call — that feeling that something important awaits. This is the beginning step in a hero’s journey. What exactly awaits? It’s hard to say. But I think you should follow your heart to find out, follow the spirit.
You may be called to find spiritual truths for yourself. You may be called to teach important truths to your local leaders and ward members. It’s probably a combination of many things. We really need more people who are LGBT to stay and take a stand, to belong, to be Mormon too!
kmullin, How wonderful for you to feel that kind of personal calling. It’s something I’ve sought for, but only hear crickets. I wish you the best in your pursuit of it.
I was also not happy about the church’s Prop8 involvement. For me, it was a catalyst to start to examine my own beliefs and I think that there has been a bit of an internal side-effect, where I think LDS members are softening their stance… specifically because of the Prop8 factor.
As others have said, your SSA is not the issue, but your sexual activity may be. For example, and maybe I’m betraying a secret here, but most heterosexual males have a built-in desire to have sex with lots of women. However, they suppress those urges for a variety of reasons, including fidelity to their wife, or living the law of chastity. So, from a “worthiness” perspective, that’s no different from being SSA and not acting on it. You mentioned dating nine months ago. I think that’s going to be an issue if sex was involved in the dating, just as it would for any hetero TR candidate. The fact that you don’t yet have the Melkeza… Milchez… Melke… Higher Priesthood works in your favor.
There are all kinds of bishops, but I would be prepared for a bishop that wants you to go through a sort of probationary period, like 6-9 months of activity and adherence to the law of chastity before receiving the higher priesthood, and then evaluating the temple question. Again, I don’t think that would be any different for a non-SSA member coming back from inactivity. If the bishop has undue concerns about your SSA, even though you are living the LoC, I would suggest not being confrontational about it, but asking if that’s something where you and the Bishop and the Stake President could have a conversation. I’m pretty sure the position of the church is that BEING gay is not a sin, but sex outside of marriage is a sin… the conundrum being that same-sex marriage is not recognized by the church. So, I think the position is that it doesn’t matter whether a person is gay or straight; only whether they are living the law of chastity.
I wish you nothing but satisfaction in your path.
Thanks for all of your kind words/support everyone. Tomorrow is the big day and I’m slightly nervous. I was extremely anxious when I was out and about this afternoon, and when I was in Deseret Book, something odd happened and my anxiousness went away. I then crossed the street to temple square and sat looking from the East, facing the gold statue of Moroni and the reflecting pool. It was nice. I think my plan for right now is just to get back to church. I’m not going to try and meet with the Bishop anytime soon, I’m just going to kind of lay low and see what happens. I plan to go to all three meetings tomorrow. I just hope everything works out for me down the road and ultimately I can get my endowment. I really hope the gay thing doesn’t get in the way, but being here in Utah, that is the reaction I have gotten from a lot of Bishops. It seemed to me that whether you were living the law of chastity or not didn’t matter. Just the fact that you were gay was enough to keep you from the temple. Anywho, it is in the Lord’s hands anyways ultimately, and it will happen in his time. That is all. If that is the feeling you had, go with it. No critique or commentary about it. Consider it personal revelation and move forward with it, seeing where it takes you. Perhaps your Bishop is a good man who won’t understand. Perhaps he would, but you need more time to process everything before you talk with him. Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps. It doesn’t really matter right now exactly why you felt what you felt; what’s important is that you felt it and that you move forward accordingly – as an “agent unto yourself”.
There really can be peace, tranquility and insight gained from sitting in a serene place (no matter where that is) and just letting go in order to find. I’m glad you had that experience.
Good luck! You sound like you thought through it and are following your heart. That is all we can do. Let us know how it goes. Wishing you the best kmullin211984 wrote:I really hope the gay thing doesn’t get in the way, but being here in Utah, that is the reaction I have gotten from a lot of Bishops. It seemed to me that whether you were living the law of chastity or not didn’t matter. Just the fact that you were gay was enough to keep you from the temple.
FWIW, I had five bishops in Utah, and
none of themfelt being gay was enough to keep me from the temple. Maybe that’s part of the roulette problem, though. A couple things that happened at church today since my entire long post just got erased: 1. Enjoyed my first time back for the most part. A letter was read in priesthood from the stake presidency about how we should be voting with our conscience, consider our morals, etc. I get it as it’s an election year.
2. The first or second counselor in the bishopric came up to me and asked me my name and birthdate, and unit number. Couldn’t figure out whether he meant my apartment unit number or if he meant my church unit number so I told him I didn’t know. He asked if I was married, to which I said no. Talks in priesthood and Sunday School were good, I think the Sunday School chick is a closet lesbian because she had on a sporty watch, not a typical small women’s watch, clogs, and her short hair was spiky all over the place. Her voice sounded different too. Not to mention the obvious gay boy who came into priesthood wearing these super super tight red pants that when he sat down they looked like the were glued to him, and he was wearing a red tie and grey shirt and every hair on his head was in place.
3. I was told by either the first or second counselor in the bishopric to expect a visit from some of the muckety mucks in leadership positions this week sometime. Have no idea who is coming because I can’t remember, but not too excited about them coming over as I don’t know what questions they’ll ask me and I’m afraid to tell them I’m gay. I want to try and get around that issue if I can, but I know when my church records are pulled it is going to raise some red flags because I’m nearly 28, didn’t serve a mission, and I’m not married, and I also don’t hold the higher priesthood. I feel some “why” questions coming on here. “Why did you leave the Church for so long, etc. Only I’m not sure how to get around them.
4. Overall it was a good experience for me, though I have some reservations still. It all comes down to me keeping what works for me, and discarding the rest. The letter read in priesthood did bother me because it said the church doesn’t get involved in politics. I don’t care what they say, they certainly do, so guess what? Discarded that part. Anywho, just wanted to let everyone know here how it went. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts and opinions on things.
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