This article broke my shelf

[Anonymous]

I don’t blame the church for my depression and anxiety problems however when I read an article such as this about spiritual abuse, I realize that the church has been a contributing factor. At the very least, it doesn’t provide me with any help or comfort.

There are many other articles and books that describe spiritual abuse the same way. I am just curious as to what opinions the great people on this site have as to what constitutes abuse.

http://www1.cbn.com/biblestudy/beware-of-%26quot%3Bspiritual-abuse%26quot%3B

ETA: Here is another article that resonates with me

https://www.charismamag.com/spirit/spiritual-growth/33517-have-you-noticed-these-14-warning-signs-of-spiritual-abuse

[Anonymous]

I am a participant at several great Christian churches with this type of mindset. “We do not have a monopoly on God/ God can direct you to another church and direct your neighbor to this church”/ and several other notions that seem to be described in this article as what non-spiritually abusive churches do.

It appears to me that a good portion of religious traditions in the history of the world would be seen as abusive by the standards of this article. In the classic JSH story all the churches of the burned over district seemed very territorial and “our way is the one right way.” Mormonism comes along and says, “No, no, Our way really is the one right way.”

That to me seems to be part of human nature with tribalism, nationalism, and “us vs. them” mentality.

But…. I have a very hard time calling it abuse. My main objection would be that by calling it abuse we can be expanding and normalizing other forms of abuse. If “abuse” happens by accident all the time by well meaning people who honestly feel that they are doing the right thing then “abuse” can’t be all that bad.

As with other issues (rape culture), using an inflammatory word can help generate interest and awareness to a particular issue. However it also has downsides.

[Anonymous]

Roy, thank you so much for your reply. This has been weighing on my mind for months now.

I very much agree about throwing around inflammatory words so that the original word loses its powerful meaning. However, I still feel like the church can be abusive and I am not just talking about the “one true church” rhetoric. But since they use that line, it enables them to abuse in other ways.

For instance:

1. I was told that God wanted me to be YWP. I wasn’t even allowed to say yes or no. Since that was stated, it was over. I bumbled my way out the door and cried. It was the most miserable 2 years of my life. I believe that was abuse of authority. When you hold God over someone’s head that loves God very much, you are emotionally manipulating them. God did make good out of a bad situation during that calling by having me learn life changing lessons which have very much contributed to where I am today. I doubt the church believes God was involved in those lessons because they definitely didn’t strengthen my testimony.

2. i was just brought in by my bishop and told that if I believed in the prophet then I would accept a calling. I am certainly in no position to do that right now but I guess since I said no, then I don’t believe in the prophet :wtf: . I reluctantly told him about my personal problems to try to explain what was going on. He said that he was going to meet with me monthly to check up on me to see when I’m ready for my calling and proceeded to ask me if I felt guilty because that could be contributing to my problems. I believe that is abuse of authority and emotional abuse. He is a very nice man but I really don’t need to feel guilty. That is one of the reasons that I am where I am.

3. The biggest evidence I feel of abuse is the good old temple recommend. They wave that thing over your head to get to to fall right in line.

a. Don’t pay tithing and you don’t get to be with your family forever. That is spiritual and emotional abuse if I ever saw it. It could also be called blackmail.

b. Don’t believe in the restoration? well, then you don’t get to see your child get married. Completely abusive in my opinion.

c. I know you have anxiety and the thought of church makes you sick but if you don’t get to all 3 hours then yep, you don’t get to live with God, who you love with all of your heart.

How is threatening you with being separated from the beings you value the most in your life, God, Jesus and family not abusive? If someone kidnapped my child and wouldn’t let me ever see him again unless I complied with his demands, I would think that is not just abusive but sick and cruel This has caused me so much stress in my life. I love my family so much. I love Heavenly Father and Jesus so much, I am sick and tired of trying to jump through hoops. I’m sick and tired of trying to be somebody I’m not. I’m sick and tired of not being able to worship in a way that feels right to me.

I’m sure some might say well just live authentically. That doesn’t work when you have a TBM husband that agrees with the church in all of the above or when I have a child who could be getting married in the temple. I might have to sacrifice seeing that or drive myself to the point where I am hardly functional. (I’m not exaggerating. It completely happened during my last 2 high pressure callings)

I’m sorry Roy, I’m not directing this on you. I am just feel so trapped and frustrated right now. I am working on getting well but the church is a huge stumbling block in me getting there.

Thank you to anyone who endured reading this and thank you for letting me vent. I needed that right now.

[Anonymous]

Abuse is a sticky topic. There is physical abuse, emotional abuse, psychological abuse, and spiritual abuse. It is possible for someone to be abusive and not realize; or to be abusive with “good intentions”. I, too , have felt the immense emotional, psychological, and spiritual pressure and condemnation which comes from openly rejecting certain doctrines of the Church. The Church makes it VERY difficult to leave. If you are not valiant in your testimony, you are told you are going to spiritual prison (condemned to listen to the missionaries for centuries on end), and afterwards will be placed in a pitiful lower kingdom, where God will separate you from your family for all eternity.

I think there are different levels of abuse though. For example, if I lose my temper at the end of a bad day, and yell at my wife, “Why are you so difficult?!!”, that is by definition emotional abuse. I am in the wrong, and will do my best to mend my ways. But it’s not worth tossing out the marriage, or getting the cops or a marriage counsellor involved. If I instead regulary instilled feelings of worthlessness, inadequacy, and dependancy on my wife, she should leave.

In religion, Jim Jones was a Spiritual abuser. He purposefully manipulated, isolated, and controlled his followers, in order to push for socialism, without believing a word of the religious dogma he spoke. Robert Tilton is a spiritual abuser. He schmoozes for money on television, promising his congregation if they “just have enough faith” to send him their life savings, all their problems will be solved. Brigham Young was a spiritual abuser (IMHO), causing an obsene number or women to marry him for “spiritual reward”, declaring anyone who left the Church was worthy of death, and using his power and influence to become obscenely rich at the expense of his people.

On the more local level, plenty of leaders in the LDS church can be seen as spiritual abusers. I know I’ve personally been condemned for unbelief. But not everyone is perfect; and a religion with an untrained ministry, instilled with feelings of power and authority, will undoubtably lead to a few “bad hombres”. And while certain general authories might say something that some will consider spiritual abuse (such as Oaks last conference talk), I think the intent was far from present. Most of the general authories are very loving and supportive, with the memberships’ best interests at heart.

The real question we should ask, is how much abuse is acceptable? We can’t abandon our jobs because our boss made us work unnecessary overtime. We can’t leave our children because they are “meanies”. We shouldn’t leave our spouse/significant other because they had a bad day. But there are points when you should quit your job, or you should send your kids off to military camp, or you should call the police on your spouse. Same with spiritual abusers. How much abuse is worth taking, for the greater good?

Kenny Rodgers wrote:

“You’ve got to know when to hold ’em, know when to fold ’em, know when to walk away, and know when to run.”

[Anonymous]

I suppose it’s high time.

I was abused. Not something that can be looked at from multiple different angles until that something can be construed as abuse, I’m talking bona fide abuse.

Roy wrote:

But…. I have a very hard time calling it abuse. My main objection would be that by calling it abuse we can be expanding and normalizing other forms of abuse. If “abuse” happens by accident all the time by well meaning people who honestly feel that they are doing the right thing then “abuse” can’t be all that bad.

I don’t mean to pick on you Roy but…

When I did my best to look at my abuser from multiple different angles, tried to really empathize with them, and tried to see the world from their perspective I found something that was initially upsetting… from their perspective they were well meaning and honestly felt they were doing the right thing, they were only acting according to their nature, acting in ways that perhaps were beyond their complete ability to control (they have a mental illness). Intentions and ability to control behaviors aside, their behavior was abusive to the people around them. Unquestioningly so.

To give a frame of reference, think Lennie Small in the novella ‘Of Mice and Men.’ Lennie didn’t mean to kill “Curley’s wife” (she doesn’t even get a name). Lennie’s intentions were pure. He loved Curley’s wife and was only stroking her hair. Not horrible intentions by any stretch of the imagination but she ended up dead. It’s a story with lots of symbolism, with lots of victims, including Lennie.

And that’s how things started to look to me. My Lennie didn’t kill me physically, my Lennie killed me emotionally, but just like in the story I began to see my Lennie as yet another victim. Just like the Lennie of the story, my Lennie was only reacting in a manner in which their nature dictated, and my Lennie could only react to how other’s reacted to their behavior.

So I can see how the well meaning actions of another can be abusive to another person. And I’ll toss in a second disclaimer… I really, truly don’t mean to pick on you Roy, honestly. But telling someone that feels like they were abused that they weren’t abused can be a form of abuse. When done intentionally it’s called gaslighting. I’m not sure if there is a distinction or a separate word for when it is done unintentionally. Sometimes we have to find little ways to validate people’s feelings, even if we don’t agree with them. I don’t know how else to say it.

Perhaps it’s not as easy to see the abuse until you’ve experienced it?

Abuse has shaped my entire life. I throw that out there because it explains the lens through which I view the world, whether I want to view the world through it or or not. Perhaps my bias makes it possible to undercut the opinion I’m about to share, so I wanted to make that bias clear before I started.

It pains me to say that when it comes to church culture I have felt small echos of the same abuse I was subject to. I’m always right, therefore the problem must lie with you. Church leaders and church doctrines are unassailable. I really don’t need to go much further than this point because I believe this position of extreme arrogance (that is the natural outcropping of a firm belief in the One True Church) generates lots of unintended abuse.

One common trait among people along the spectrum of having a personality disorder is “splitting,” which is like black and white thinking on steroids. Extreme black and white thinking is also found along the spectrum of stage 3 faith organizations. I don’t think I have to cite ways in which the LDS culture can be very black and white in their world view.

Guilt and shame tear down a person’s self esteem. There’s no shortage of employing both to control behavior in the church.

Now hear me out. I don’t think the LDS church is unique in sharing many common traits with abusive people. I certainly don’t think it’s intentional. The fact of the matter is that if you believe that the church is indeed the One True Church, that the leaders are hand-picked by god himself, and the culture places an inordinate amount of emphasis on obedience, abusive traits are going to bubble to the surface. It doesn’t matter if it’s the LDS church, the Catholic church, an evangelical church, or your local 4H club. And it won’t be because there’s someone behind the scenes thinking, “what can we do to manipulate people,” it’s just a natural byproduct of the environment.

(cont’d)

[Anonymous]

dande48 wrote:

The real question we should ask, is how much abuse is acceptable?

I agree. One thing that I feel further complicates matters is that people may put up with a lot more abuse than a normal, healthy (relatively speaking) level because they feel their very salvation is on the line. Again, this isn’t something that “the church” necessarily has a hand in. It’s more on the belief of the individual. If they really, truly believe that their salvation depends on the church, aspects of the church make them uncomfortable but they know the church is True, and they beat themselves silly trying to change to conform to the very thing that is making them uncomfortable… I struggle with words today so I hope you can see where I’m going with this.

So back to Lennie. Let’s say the church is Lennie, a mentally handicapped person that does not know their own strength.

Mentally handicapped – let’s ignore the mental handicap aspect and say this like is being subject to the external “power” of it’s own doctrines. The doctrine is that the church is “True” and this doctrine controls the church, not the other way around.

Doesn’t know its own strength – like the church doesn’t fully appreciate just how much power it wields in the lives of other people.

So we have a powerful organization that is like the proverbial rock cut out of the mountain. The rock isn’t in control, its environment is (gravity, and a hill to roll down). Get under the rock, get crushed. Get in the way of the rock like that statue, get dashed to pieces.

I’m skipping around, I don’t have much time today. Going back to the question, how much abuse is acceptable?

Just this past Sunday at church we spent quite a bit of time talking about how wrong/bad the people that leave are. How does that feel to the person, perhaps like you or I, that may be struggling with staying and on the verge of leaving. To know that there’s a great deal of talk about you and how wrong and bad you are for leaving that’s going on nearly every Sunday at church. You know exactly how your neighbors will judge you.

I’m sorry that my thoughts are disjointed. I have a few more thoughts on trying to heal after the abuse that will have to wait until later.

[Anonymous]

Dande, I do appreciate what you are saying. Just to clarify the bishops I was talking about are very good, kind men. I could tell when they were talking to me they were trying to follow a script. They even fumbled over the words. The looked awkward and I felt awkward. This is something they did because they were told to do it by someone higher up than them. It’s part of the system. I don’t view those men as spiritual abusers, I blame the system.

Believe me I would love to just fold them and walk away and run. But now I’m ensnared in it because of family. I feel like I have to sacrifice my mental well being in order to save myself the trauma of major family issues. In other words, I feel trapped because of the way this organization is set up. It’s actually working exactly as it should. I can’t leave without sacrificing some of the things most important to me in the world. I have to choose between self preservation or maintaining peace keeping out strife in my family. So I am still hanging in there by a thread. Again, I feel this is abusive but maybe it’s just very manipulating, I don’t know the difference.

Nibbler, I am so sorry for what you have went through. I really hope I haven’t minimized what you have been through by claiming abuse. Maybe since I haven’t been through real abuse such as you have, I am using the term too lightly. I apologize if that’s the case. I really don’t like it when people throw these powerful words around which downplays real tragedy and I hope I haven’t made you feel that way.

I feel this church rules by fear which really plays into my anxiety. Probably most people aren’t affected like I am and so I probably sound very melodramatic. I love this part of a talk by Pres. Uchtdorf though from April 2017:

“It is true that fear can have a powerful influence over our actions and behavior. But that influence tends to be temporary and shallow. Fear rarely has the power to change our hearts, and it will never transform us into people who love what is right and who want to obey Heavenly Father.

People who are fearful may say and do the right things, but they do not feel the right things. They often feel helpless and resentful, even angry. Over time these feelings lead to mistrust, defiance, even rebellion.

Unfortunately, this misguided approach to life and leadership is not limited to the secular world. It grieves me to hear of Church members who exercise unrighteous dominion—whether in their homes, in their Church callings, at work, or in their daily interactions with others.

Often, people may condemn bullying in others, yet they cannot see it in themselves. They demand compliance with their own arbitrary rules, but when others don’t follow these random rules, they chasten them verbally, emotionally, and sometimes even physically.

The Lord has said that “when we … exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, … the heavens withdraw themselves [and] the Spirit of the Lord is grieved.”2

There may be moments when we are tempted to justify our actions by believing that the end justifies the means. We might even think that to be controlling, manipulative, and harsh will be for the good of others. Not so, for the Lord has made it clear that “the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, [and] temperance.”3

[Anonymous]

I am going to try to be sensitive – I may not succeed. Apologies ahead if I miss it.

Quote:

I feel this church rules by fear which really plays into my anxiety

I agree and disagree. There is a ton of peer pressure and fear mongering. I’ve experienced it myself and watched it doled out to others.

Religion though has been that way for centuries. It doesn’t make it right in our church. I only mention that we don’t have the corner on it. My Catholic friend changed religions because she was tired of Catholic guilt. The style may be different but the outcomes sound the same.

I am by no means asking you to stay in it. However, you are right your personal life situation makes it difficult to find a safe spot to be. I wish I could offer you suggestions. I am sure you have read the board and found tons of them.

Before you completely wipe out your heart with guilt – I want you to know I am aware of 3 separate stories of people who didn’t/couldn’t accept callings. Turning them down didn’t damage their lives in the long run.

I am one of them. It was hard for me to do because it was my husband who wouldn’t support me taking the calling. It broke my heart. Ironically the President who had submitted my name (the one I turned down) would end up calling me three years later because she was now in my boat and wanted to know how to proceed. Both of us have gone on to fill plenty of leadership callings since then. The ward kept rolling. Everything was fine.

The final story I know was when I was a President and submitted a name. She turned it down. I was stunned. I couldn’t believe the Bishop couldn’t talk her into it. Wasn’t that what Bishops are supposed to do? He didn’t try, to my knowledge. He just said OK and let it go. Today she is our Stake Relief Society President and her husband is on the High Council.

Saying no will not stall the Kingdom.

Your shelf is cracking not just from a Bishop or SP, though the pressure is very out of line. It’s cracking because you feel stuck in places you can’t breech. I hope you find a solution. A spot of courage or hope. I also hope venting here helps.

[Anonymous]

Kate, I’m so sorry to read this. I hope you can find peace and a way to ease this burden. You don’t deserve it. I wish I could just beam love and respect right through the Internet to you.

I was abused by my peers from grade 4 to grade 10, in three different schools, for the horrible crime of being a poor, intelligent, socially awkward, outspoken outsider. Did I deserve a bit of a smackdown occasionally? You bet. I didn’t deserve fearing for my safety every day on my way to the bus stop or between classes. I didn’t deserve being ridiculed until the only way I could get through it was to hate almost everyone. I didn’t deserve to be stuck in that situation with no way out.

In my weaker moments, I still occasionally fantasize about beating one of my abusers over the head with a board until I send him to the hospital. I would have done it if I had the chance, and I would have felt nothing but relief.

Here’s the thing: he never saw himself as an abuser. He was just putting things right by making sure the arrogant nerd understood his place in the school caste system. He never understood that he stole two months of my life. And he did it by doing nothing more than making vague threats and cracking jokes in class.

I wish everyone would understand at least this one fact about abuse: abusers don’t think of themselves as abusers. Aside from a few sociopaths, they don’t set out to hurt people. They do it because they have a warped worldview that justifies it.

Kate, I have no doubt that you’ve been abused. Some members who find themselves on the margins get it worse than others – sometimes much worse. It’s the nature of the system. It sucks, it’s wrong, and it’s un-Christlike.

[Anonymous]

I can definitely see elements of spiritual abuse in the church. I haven’t seen a lot of spiritual abuse from leaders first hand, but I am aware of a number of other people who were victims of leadership roulette.

What most readily comes to mind is the endowment ceremony. Before it all begins, you are given the option to back out, having no idea what you will be agreeing to, not to mention being in a coercive atmosphere where it would be extremely uncomfortable to back out. That bothered me a little bit even my first time through (though there were other things that were bigger issues at the time). The other is Satan’s spiel before he leaves the final time. It’s very fear driven and feels out of place from the rest of the temple experience. It bothered me the first time and it bothers me to this day. I felt I was making covenants out of coercion and fear rather than with understanding and by my own choice.

Throw in church history, and I can definitely see the spiritually abusive elements of the church. There are far worse examples out there, but that certainly isn’t comforting to hear.

As previously mentioned, the church is hard to leave. We have callings that keep us entrenched, home teachers, visiting teachers, and the expectations of all friends and family who are active in the church. Leaving almost always comes at the cost of relationships. And sadly, the church, if only unintentionally, encourages the behaviors and attitudes that lead to the immense difficulty in leaving the church. The church certainly puts a lot more stress on us than is really necessary. Unfortunately, negative responses to the high demands are usually handled in a “where is your faith?” or “You just need to try harder” manner rather than validation, comfort, and support- what is actually needed.

I hope that I can feel right in continuing to be a part of the church whether or not I believe in everything in the most traditional sense, because it desperately needs to adopt more loving and accepting attitudes and I feel I can make at least a dent in those issues. It won’t be in the hierarchy, but I seem to have the personality that provokes deep questioning in others. I have been told by a number of people (current and ex- Mormon) that I would make a great bishop someday… I can’t really imagine that from where I stand now, but I can at least tell you a little about the kind of bishop I would be. And I can tell you, I would do everything in my power to avoid being spiritually abusive and teach others to do the same.

[Anonymous]

Mom3, Thank you. I do know that we are not the only religion that puts pressure on it’s members. I feel the temple ups the ante quite a bit but I definitely agree with you. You are right that it’s not specific instances that have caused me to want to be done but the feeling of being trapped. I realize that saying no to the calling isn’t the end of the world but I’m tired of the pressure and the guilt. I’ve always beat myself up and told myself that I’m not selfless enough, that I don’t serve and dedicate my life to church like many people do. I’ve felt that I am one of the “weak” members and that Heavenly Father is disappointed in me. That article helped me realize that maybe I’m not as bad as I thought I was and that maybe the church has been wrong on heaping all of this responsibility and pressure on it’s members. I feel so different from anyone else and I feel like I’m suffocating because I can’t just be myself. I’m starting to finally realize that the real me isn’t as worthless as I believed I was all of these years. That it could be the church is wrong to try to force everyone to believe exactly what they tell you to believe and do everything they ask you to do. Venting to this forum has helped and I appreciate your kind voice instead of the condemning voices I hear so often.

Reuben, thank you for kind words. I’m sorry for the abuse that you suffered when you were growing up. As I told Nibbler, I hope that my use of the word doesn’t offend you. I obviously haven’t feared for my safety in the church as you had to do daily. When I talk about spiritual abuse I’m not even really talking only about things that I have experienced but for what others have experienced also. I feel that the culture that is created is toxic to some. My VT partner has SO much going on in her life over the years and she still gets called to the most stressful callings and is asked to do everything to help. I don’t know if anyone has ever said to her, “you need a break”. But yet she will never say no so she just keeps plowing along trying to survive. Many times when we meet monthly she is in tears. I just want to yell at her that it’s okay to say no. If you don’t look after yourself in this organization it feels like no one else will look out for you. By bringing God up in everything it makes so many of us feel like by saying no to anything in church you are saying no to God. So even if you do say no you are wracked with guilt and you are still miserable. It just seems so manipulative and uncaring to me. You’re right. It feels un-Christlike.

Beefster, I agreed with everything word for word that you said except for the last part where you want to make a difference. I am tired of thinking I can change anything. I am so glad for people like you that can stick it out and be selfless to try to help others. I feel pretty beaten down right now to where it is hard for me to even step inside church to go to Sacrament meeting. But maybe someday things could get better and could be open to a calling again. One thing I have learned about this life so far is that I don’t know anything. This life has been a roller coaster ride and I really don’t know where it is going to end up. Thank you so much for your comments.

I just reread my posts and boy do these sound like “poor me”. I would delete everything because it is pretty embarrassing but it feels good to vent. Thank you to everyone here for letting me do that.

[Anonymous]

kate5 wrote:

Believe me I would love to just fold them and walk away and run. But now I’m ensnared in it because of family. I feel like I have to sacrifice my mental well being in order to save myself the trauma of major family issues. In other words, I feel trapped because of the way this organization is set up. It’s actually working exactly as it should. I can’t leave without sacrificing some of the things most important to me in the world. I have to choose between self preservation or maintaining peace keeping out strife in my family. So I am still hanging in there by a thread. Again, I feel this is abusive but maybe it’s just very manipulating, I don’t know the difference.

I can’t say what would be best in your situation; it’s all very different for each of us. But with me, I once felt trapped in the Church, because of my family relationships and the devistation I thought it would bring upon everything; I thought my wife would leave me, my family would disown me, and I’d be left homeless and broke out on the streets. And then I took the plunge, came out, and am still letting the consequences follow. Your family may suprise you. My wife has been super supportive. My parents bore their testimony on how the Church was true, and made an honest attempt to change my mind, but our relationship has largely been the same. My relationship with my mother-in-law is strained, but she’s coming around. All-in-all, what I imagined happening turned out to be much worse than what actually happened.

Your situation is different. Maybe things will really go south if you leave, even in part. In that case, sticking with the Church might be the price you have to pay for your family. But I think things will turn out better than you’d expect. I think most of all, it’s important not to let anyone else force us or coerce us into anything against our consience.

[Anonymous]

Dande, my husband pretty much knows everything. He has actually been less understanding then I thought he would be. I think that is why I feel so trapped. I am trying to do the minimum I need to in order to get by but I know he wants much more from me. He is not happy with me right now and I feel bad that this has hurt him so much.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

I’m tired of the pressure and the guilt. I’ve always beat myself up and told myself that I’m not selfless enough, that I don’t serve and dedicate my life to church like many people do. I’ve felt that I am one of the “weak” members and that Heavenly Father is disappointed in me.

I do hear you. Loud and clear.

I wish everyone could have heard our fifth Sunday meeting. It was the antithesis of this. I am stunned by it. I went in all prepped for the guilt a thon this is usually 5th Sunday. Instead it was about loving as God loves. Loving ourselves, forgiving ourselves, and loving others. Especially people not like us. So many of us commented that it was one of the nicest lessons or talks we have had in ages. I don’t know if it will be a trend, but I wish you had been there.

I am so sorry about your strained marriage. This is an area the church doesn’t help with. Knowing that though doesn’t make it any easier.

I am going to play Mom now – have you tried meditation? In my darkest hours of this journey meditation helped so much. It can take as little as 5 minutes a day. All you do is sit, breathe, and let thoughts roll by. It takes some practice but it really did help me. It’s a tool I can use lots of places. No one even notices when I am doing it. My favorite meditation is Loving Kindness. Give it a try. You will lose nothing by trying.

http://marc.ucla.edu/mindful-meditations” class=”bbcode_url”>http://marc.ucla.edu/mindful-meditations

[Anonymous]

kate5 wrote:

Beefster, I agreed with everything word for word that you said except for the last part where you want to make a difference.

Heh. I just didn’t want to end on a downer. If you need to back off from the church for a while (or indefinitely), I get it. Of course, that’s easier said than done when your husband is TBM and sides with the church.

I know what it’s like to go to church and feel like nothing helps or everything ticks you off and you want desperately to leave. Maybe not to the level you feel it- but I get it.

The way I see it, the purpose of religion is to find happiness and truth. If you don’t feel like you’re getting much of either, maybe it’s time for a new faith, or at least a new approach to the one you already have.

[Author]

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