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A very touching story, Sally, and I am sorry that you have had to endure this experience. Not to argue, but I will point out that for the most part our GAs do not talk about the magical God of the lost car keys, especially those in the highest level (the Q15). They do, however, perpetuate some falsities about prayer and answers IMO, and I agree this is bad. When I first came to this forum and before that I would often say that they didn’t know what they were talking about because they hadn’t had the experiences that some of the rest of us have had. While I don’t use that verbiage anymore (because it tends to offend the more orthodox types and stymies discussion), I still believe that. At the same time, I have learned to respect that point of view – and feel bad for them that they haven’t had such experiences. As a side note to that point, some of them clearly do understand – Pres. Uchtdorf, for instance.
Agreed that the first presidency is more careful about what they say and agreed that church doctrine that is actual doctrine/official teaching is not necessarily the fluff that we hear in sacrament meetings and gospel doctrine classes. There are very few things that the prophet actually sets out there and says “this is an official statement.” Most of the rest of junk we hear on a regular basis is based on some talk or another of someone we can’t even remember and it gets re-told and often distorted and taken out of context. And much of it isn’t distorted at all- it gets taught just as so-and-so of the quorum or whatever position stated it, but then it could be argued that he wasn’t the actual prophet nor was he speaking for the church nor claiming to give a commandment. These sound like excuses to me anymore. If a guy says something and it turns out to be crap we can excuse it that way. This way they have plausible deniability. When confronted with church change, which people have a hard time with, (since the gospel is supposed to be the same yesterday, today and for always) or when something just doesn’t fit right, the rest of the church can just say, “We never said that. That was just this one guy who said it and it wasn’t Gospel.” etc. Even though millions of people may have taken those things to heart, and and built there daily lives around them, and generations were brought up with it as part of their yes or no check list. Like the whole caffeine debacle. Don’t tell me that wasn’t taught as Gospel- it was! Maybe was never meant to be but it sure was! It was crammed down my throat like every other kid in my generation that grew up with it. I can’t tell you the guilt I suffered the first time I accidentally drank Coke!
But in my specific instance and the instance that the boy is the article struggled with I think is far more damaging when dealing with our types of problems. We were taught that: 1-God is you personal savior not only to forgive your sons but to keep you safe. 2- He watches your every move and everything happens for a reason. 3-He answers prayers (although there are some excuses that he did but not in the way you expect or whatever *BS.*) Further I was taught: 4-Your priesthood leaders are inspired and you need to follow them at all costs and 5-You don’t break up a marriage unless physical abuse or proof of chronic unrepentant adultery is present. 6-Priesthood blessings are real and all you have to do to collect is live righteously and 7-God never gives you anything you can’t handle.
Maybe these things were never meant to be doctrine but they sure are taught as if they are, and are accepted as such by the general population of the church. They are things that are false are taught as true. But really can anything be different? We are a church of peer teachers. We call Joe Bob into positions of authority without any actual training of any kind. We call speakers who have no knowledge or authority over anything. Even in the upper echelons of the church there is not much to qualify some of those people being there other than they knew how to play the game and were friends with the right people.
As a church of peer to peer teachers, there is much that is repeated that is wrong. And there are very definite patterns of thinking, and teachings that are accepted as doctrine even if the prophet himself never said “this is doctrine.” The thing that peaks my FC is either 1. The prophet knows these things are being taught and knows that 90+% of the followers believe these things, and he knowingly runs this environment that not only allows it, but encourages it. (And he knows the teachings are false); in which case, how can he be a true prophet? Why doesn’t he put a stop to it? How couldn’t he? Or 2- He also believes these false things; in which case, how can he be a true prophet?
This is all starting to sound like a tactic my husband with Borderline Personality Disorder uses. He can never be wrong, so when he does something, no matter the severity, he must make me doubt my reality. *That’s not what he said, that’s not what he meant, I am taking everything wrong and blowing it out of proportion.* Like clockwork. I can rehearse the stages before he opens his mouth. I am tired of being told I am crazy and I don’t know what was real. I know what was real. I know what the church taught me and I believed it. And they were wrong.
This is a principle that I am tossing in my head about a suicide thread here so I am going to hope over there for a while.
I honestly think the truth is that nobody knows. I don’t know why God lets things happen the way they do. Why didn’t God step in and save you from your abusive husband? Why did God remain quiet when Jews were thrown into human ovens? Why didn’t the boy in DarkJedi’s story get rescued? I don’t know. Maybe there are some people who genuinely know. I tend to think that many if not most of the people who say they understand don’t really – either because in your case they don’t understand what it means to see your children’s sense of worth destroyed or because of an abusive husband – or because they haven’t thought about it really deeply. It also could be that the people like us who suffer have done something to deserve it, or are rejecting God’s help when he attempts to give it to us. But for me, I have found that Jesus won’t let me hate Him. After a hellish week, I’ll feel calm or be helped in some way. Something to keep me going. I guess that is a good sign. There is something about God that I cannot reject. He keeps knocking on my door. I tend to think there is a good reason we’ll find out eventually as to why this life is hell – and it isn’t hell all the time. It is most of the time for some and some of the time for most (another incongruity I don’t understand). Until then, I guess I just keep limping along.
Intothelight – Great Post. I haven’t had the pain Ragdoll or you have experienced. I marvel at each of your’s strength, even in the dark unknown – especially in the dark unknown. One thing I am beginning to come to terms with is “I don’t know.” For a long time I thought I knew. I really did. I believed I was empathetic, compassionate, and had a heart of understanding. Reflectively I did or at least a desire to keep an open mind and heart, then Faith Crisis hit. That was a tsunami I didn’t expect. In the turmoil of it I found my assurances about everything overturned. But from that process (yes it is still ongoing) I am finding a less assured me. I don’t know – what ever it is you are hurting from, so instead of me filling in the gap with words of pointlessness to you – let me listen, and let you unload some pain. That’s all I can do, I think it’s all God meant me to do.
For me this dark and ugly Faith Transition has paralleled your experience, in that I find God pointing me to be the person who looks for the soul that needs a hand. I have no theological answer or skill, but I have ears to hear, hands and arms to hold and hug, I can cook, drive, shop, sit. God will have to fix the broken – my job is to be the band-aid.
Funny how we are not told to “rely on the arm of flesh”. Yet our own actions are often our best friends in unravelling difficult circumstances. I don’t see God as intervening much in my life lately — but I do find comfort when I pray to Him at times. I am looking very forward to the day when we really know firsthand the nature of God, and whether He even exists.
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