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I was thinking about something the other day and starting wondering about something I’ve never really considered before. If Christ’s visit to the Nephites came immediately after the three days of darkness that accompanied His crucifixion and if — as I presume — He spent a significant amount of time with them, how does this fit in to the Bible’s account of the days immediately following His resurrection. Was in in the New World or in the Old World during the first few weeks after He first appeared to his disciples as a resurrected being? A careful reading of 3 Nephi chapters 8 and 10 reveal that the appearance of Christ to the Nephites did not happen immediately after his death and resurrection, rather it was a year or so later. 3 Nephi 8:5 (emphasis added)
Quote:And it came to pass
in the thirty and fourth year, in the first month, on the fourth day of the month, there arose a great storm, such an one as never had been known in all the land. 3 Nephi 10:18-19 (emphasis added)
Quote:And it came to pass that in the
ending of the thirty and fourth year, behold, I will show unto you that the people of Nephi who were spared, and also those who had been called Lamanites, who had been spared, did have great favors shown unto them, and great blessings poured out upon their heads, insomuch that soon after the ascension of Christ into heaven he did truly manifest himself unto them— Showing his body unto them, and ministering unto them; and an account of his ministry shall be given hereafter. Therefore for this time I make an end of my sayings.
(We must also keep in mind that the original BoM was not divided chapter and verse as we know it and read more like a novel. Thus the current break we have between chapters 10 and 11 was not present and what we call verse 1 of chapter 11 immediately followed what we call verse 19 of chapter 10. Reading the opening of chapter 11 in isolation from the previous verse does muddy the waters of clarity of understanding. Apparently they were so enthralled with the changes following the death of Christ that it was still a topic of discussion a year later. I guess there wasn’t as much to talk about before CNN or Netflix.)
Hi Katzpur, When reading historical or scriptural accounts, it’s very common for us to compact the timeline in our minds. Generations go by in a single chapter and we don’t easily expand the time in our perception. Just by way of example we generally recognize the ministry of Jesus to have been about three years. Yet, you can read the account of it in Mark in an afternoon. Think of what you were doing three years ago, and how much water has gone under the bridge since then. There is a long arch to the story of Jesus’ ministry, teachings, and death. But, we commonly concatenate it down to a brief outline.
The case of 3 Nephi is a great example. In our minds, destruction and darkness, and Jesus appears as the darkness dissipates. It’s tight and dramatic. But, in 3 Nephi 8, we are told that the destruction came at the beginning of the 34th year, (“in the thirty and fourth year, in the first month, on the fourth day of the month, there arose a great storm…”). After it was over, and before the darkness dissipated, there were people that had been spared who heard the voice from heaven.
After the darkness dispersed, these people had time to mourn their dead, and turn to the Lord in joy… and to gather in Bountiful “in the ending of the thirty and fourth year” (3Ne10:18), where they were discussing the recent calamity, and then Jesus appeared.
Haha… was typing at the same time as DJ… He said it better than me. Thank you guys so much! I’ve got to admit that I have a really hard time reading the Book of Mormon, and what you both pointed out was something I’ve never noticed. Katzpur wrote:
Thank you guys so much! I’ve got to admit that I have a really hard time reading the Book of Mormon, and what you both pointed out was something I’ve never noticed.
I have trouble with the BoM as well. It’s just poorly written with way too much “it came to pass” and “verily.” And King James English Lite? I’ll pass on that too. Thus, my above scholarship is even more surprising than it might appear to be on the surface. On the other hand, if I did have a favorite part of the BoM, this would be it.
I believe this particular instance would be an OMG (g=gosh, of course) for the vast majority of members if pointed out. I think most of us do exactly what OON suggests and mentally compress that timeline. The aforementioned muddiness doesn’t help us not do that. Maybe not on exactly the same scale as “What!? Joseph was a polygamist!?” but nonetheless something that most have believed all their lives and have been taught in Primary and SS (and likely even seminary).
DarkJedi wrote:I think most of us do exactly what OON suggests and mentally compress that timeline. The aforementioned muddiness doesn’t help us not do that. Maybe not on exactly the same scale as “What!? Joseph was a polygamist!?” but nonetheless something that most have believed all their lives and have been taught in Primary and SS (and likely even seminary).
I can’t remember where I picked up that idea. I’ve just always been told that the sky became like night in the Holy Land, even though it was mid-day, and that in the New World, the darkness lasted for three days and was followed by Christ’s appearance. And of course, I didn’t bother to question it.
In a manner of speaking, the BoM is more Christian than the bible. One of the ways that this is true is by making clear references and prophecies of Jesus in pre-Christian times. Another is by adding multiple references to the trinity that Christians would have very much liked to have been in the bible. Finally, The BoM one ups the miracles of the bible in size and scale. In the bible there is darkness for three hours in the BoM there is darkness for three days. In the bible there is an earthquake, in the BoM the landscape goes topsy-turvey and whole cities are lost in the destruction. Related tangent: We have read the Book of Mormon as a doctrinal proof text for so long that most members have no idea what it says as a history / sociological work. (whether or not it is historically accurate)
There are TONS of things in it that would blow members’ minds, but they don’t read it in a way to understand the book as a holistic narrative.
For example, there is a solid argument to be made that the second focus of the book (after Jesus) is what happens when families and cultures allow themselves to become dysfunctional by dividing into competing groups and lose the kind of unity that God desires – beginning in the first pages and culminating twice in the destruction of entire kingdoms/civilizations. There is a solid demographic description of why the tribal populations differed so radically, tied to why the core racism existed despite Nephi’s teaching against it. There is a detailed explanation of how societies turn from God and begin to desire a human replacement. The list is extensive and quite fascinating from a social science perspective.
Katzpur wrote:
DarkJedi wrote:I think most of us do exactly what OON suggests and mentally compress that timeline. The aforementioned muddiness doesn’t help us not do that. Maybe not on exactly the same scale as “What!? Joseph was a polygamist!?” but nonetheless something that most have believed all their lives and have been taught in Primary and SS (and likely even seminary).
I can’t remember where I picked up that idea. I’ve just always been told that the sky became like night in the Holy Land, even though it was mid-day, and that in the New World, the darkness lasted for three days and was followed by Christ’s appearance. And of course, I didn’t bother to question it.
I know this is a stupid question, but how would they know it was three days? People didn’t have good time keeping in those times.
Not only that but we read no one could light fires, lamps etc. After a day in complete.darkness people will begin to hallucinate.
SamBee wrote:
I know this is a stupid question, but how would they know it was three days? People didn’t have good time keeping in those times.Not only that but we read no one could light fires, lamps etc. After a day in complete.darkness people will begin to hallucinate.
Mass hallucinations! Now there is an idea.
SamBee wrote:
Katzpur wrote:
DarkJedi wrote:I think most of us do exactly what OON suggests and mentally compress that timeline. The aforementioned muddiness doesn’t help us not do that. Maybe not on exactly the same scale as “What!? Joseph was a polygamist!?” but nonetheless something that most have believed all their lives and have been taught in Primary and SS (and likely even seminary).
I can’t remember where I picked up that idea. I’ve just always been told that the sky became like night in the Holy Land, even though it was mid-day, and that in the New World, the darkness lasted for three days and was followed by Christ’s appearance. And of course, I didn’t bother to question it.
I know this is a stupid question, but how would they know it was three days? People didn’t have good time keeping in those times.
Not only that but we read no one could light fires, lamps etc. After a day in complete.darkness people will begin to hallucinate.
Interesting thought. Since we measure days by the earth’s rotation and presume the Nephites did as well, how did they know 3 days passed without seeing the sun rise and set? (I am also assuming cell service was out due to the calamities
If people get stuck in darkness for more than a few hours, their body rhythms get out of whack. The first night they may sleep at the right time but even then they’ll be losing count. There really is no way to count three days of darkness without light. SamBee wrote:
I know this is a stupid question, but how would they know it was three days?
If you take the BofM as literal, then they didn’t need to count the hours to know it was three days. Zenos (as recounted in 1Nephi) predicted “three days of darkness” and Samuel the Lamanite said in Helaman that darkness would cover the face of the earth for “three days”.When the darkness dissipated, all that would have to happen is for the remaining faithful to ask each other, “how long was that darkness?” and the answer would be “three days” because that’s what fulfilled the prophecies.
In the same way, Jesus offered the sign of Jonah, which He Himself interpreted to mean that He would lie in the tomb for three days and three nights as Jonah was in the Fish’s belly for three days and three nights. Because of that, we talk of Jesus rising after three days. But a lot of people now think of it as a figure of speech meaning part of three days, not literally 72 hours, the way we would interpret that statement in English. So Friday afternoon to Sunday morning still works, even through our three day concept doesn’t.
I imagine JC could appear to be in several places at once, or jump around back and forwards in time if he wanted to so I wouldn’t try to reconcile his appearances in several widely separated places. Easy to count the passage of time if they had hourglasses, water clocks, or candles. In the pre-clock era, candles were often marked with graded notches like a ruler to note approximately how much time had passed based on the shortening of the candle; same thing would work w/a graded oil lamp or wick. Or they could tell by the age of the moon after the light appeared again, if it was so many more days advanced or whatever.
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