- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
Tithing Settlement can be a difficult time of year – especially if you do not pay tithing but wish to remain involved with the ward. The ward secretary texted me to ask about appointment times. On the appointed day DW and I talked to our children about what to expect. I explained that the Bishop must make a declaration for each member of the ward as Non, part, or full tithe payer and he needs our help to accurately do so. This year 12 year old DD had been spotty in her setting aside money for tithing. I let her know that she can tell the bishop that she is a part tithe payer without any shame or recrimination.
At the church, I go in first and declare my own non payment. I let the bishop know that I do this in order not to confuse the kids with my example. Bishop asks if I am making any progress in coming to a point where I can return to full payment. I respond that it is an ongoing “struggle” that I am still working on. Bishop is pretty great and says that he is here to help in any way that might be needed. He talked about how the church leadership wants everyone to go to the temple and shared an example of a recent convert couple that had their first visit to the temple. I appreciate that emphasis because it is forward looking and aspirational rather than backward looking and recriminating. Near the end he said that he hopes that I always stay open to renewing a TR. Wonderful!
We summon DW and the kids into the office. DD declares as part tithe payer (to which the biship responds that if she pays from this moment forward she will be a full tithe payer next year), DS declares as full, and DW declares as full (DW has not worked outside the home in the last year). Bishop asks everyone get to know you questions for an additional 10 or 15 minutes, then my son with ASD loudly asks why this meeting is so long.
The meeting abruptly ends. As we shuffle out of the office, I shake hands with the bishop and tell him that I appreciate all he does for our ward.
I know that everyone’s circumstances are different and leadership roulette is real. For all the complaining I do – I want to celebrate with my StayLDS friends this good and positive interaction. It helps to balance me out and not let things get too cynical.
As I am someone in a full blown faith crisis, who also currently holds a calling that provides a front row seat to the tithing process, this story warms my heart. On the subject of tithing, it’s Ironic to me that the church just announced a new high rise office building development in downtown SLC. Interesting timing.
Thank you. These stories are important. I never get hassled. I get invited. I usually turn it down. They hand me a slip of paper and let it go. mom3 wrote:
I never get hassled. I get invited. I usually turn it down. They hand me a slip of paper and let it go.
Ditto. The first year our bishop was in office he tried the line about needing to submit the record for every member, and I responded that I thought tithing was between me and the Lord, He (the Lord) knows what I pay, and he (the bishop) could write whatever he wanted on that paper, but I did assert I was a full tithe payer. He hasn’t said anything about it to me since.
I have never felt that tithing settlement was all that necessary. I can see that it’s a time for the bishop to touch base with each family but he generally sees the families that go to tithing settlement anyway. I can’t imagine some of the inactive families in our ward bothering. (The less active we have in our ward have been so their entire lives. I only know of one family in our boundaries that was once active and now is less so.) I don’t know why he needs some statement that it is a full tithing given that the issue is covered in the temple recommend interview. (If they don’t have a temple recommend… their donations can be between them and God.) SO…last year, I didn’t bother to sign up to see what would happen. Nothing. My wife kept nagging me to sign up and I was noncommittal about it. Finally, she signed us up but something occurred and the appointment had to be cancelled. We moved into the holidays and my wife was too busy to pay attention and we never went in. I had all the satisfaction of accomplishing something that required no action on my part. Upon reflection, my behavior seemed a little passive-aggressive (even though I was the only one aware of it). That’s about as rebellious as I get. And I’ll probably end up going this year. If it was only me, I would report in the hallway or via text. However, it is important to my wife, so we sign up and go to the formal meeting. I look at it as a one time annually to compare personal records with the church reports & declare that they are accurate or not. This is especially true if you have a last name that is common like Brown or Smith.
Today, in the world of computers & the internet, you can see if an error was made, in minutes. You should be able to check
a box on line to declare if it is a full or partial tithe.
My Bishop’s response maybe he wants to see everyone once a year & “touch base”. This is especially true if a member doesn’t
draw attention during the year or is a recent move in or recent convert.
Minyan Man wrote:
I look at it as a one time annually to compare personal records with the church reports & declare that they are accurate or not.This is especially true if you have a last name that is common like Brown or Smith.
Today, in the world of computers & the internet, you can see if an error was made, in minutes. You should be able to check
a box on line to declare if it is a full or partial tithe.
My Bishop’s response maybe he wants to see everyone once a year & “touch base”. This is especially true if a member doesn’t
draw attention during the year or is a recent move in or recent convert.
I think for some people “checking for mistakes” is a valid point, especially in the US where it could have tax implications if there were a mistake. From another point of view, earthly mistakes don’t matter when God knows what you pay.
I think tithing settlement is for the most part antiquated and a useless tradition. I hope it’s one of Pres. Nelson’s next changes. With modern technology, I pay online and I can view my statement/status any time I like. I agree – putting a box (or set of boxes) on there that I could self check would be a step in the right direction.
I see the point several of you are making about the tithing settlement being unnecessary. For those that have a TR they have an opportunity to declare at that time. For those that do not come to church, they probably do not pay anything and do not care what the bishop writes down. For me and me only, I see tithing settlement as one of the few times I have to build a relationship with the bishop. My specific circumstance: I do not pay tithing. I attend church about every other month as my work schedule permits. I hold a weekly calling as a bear den cub scout leader with my wife.
Because I do not hold a TR there is no point to a TR interview. I am not in church every week and bishop is rarely present on Wednesday nights for cub scouts.
The tithing settlement becomes a rare opportunity for me to sit down with the bishop in a mutually respectful way and assert my intent to continue to serve, strive, and “Stay” in the church.
A year from now my son will be 12. I hope to ordain him to the priesthood of Aaron. This to me is like passing down the priesthood that I received at the hand of my own father. I want my son to read the names of his father and grandfather on his priesthood line of authority. I see my going to tithing settlement now as a proactive step to further my goals of ordaining my son a year from now.
The last tithing settlement I went to I brought up the point that my gross pay is way more than net and in fact I should pay on net not gross. The money taken from me is not mine and i should not have to pay tithing on someone else’s money. My “yearly increase” is what I can actually bank. Bishop had no reply but DW invoked the “robbing God ” comment and as the family patriarch she would not listen but made our decision right there. She goes by herself every year now. Hi Kipper, However you calculate tithing I believe that this should not be dissected in front of your bishop.
I also would be hesitant to meet with the bishop with a spouse that I felt might contradict what I am saying.
In my situation, how I present myself before the bishop is intentionally crafted to keep my options open. It would be extremely frustrating as well as potentially doing lasting damage for that spouse to undercut my message in real time before the bishop.
In summary, I do not believe there are any winners when a couple has a doctrinal disagreement in front of a church leader.
Roy wrote:
Hi Kipper,However you calculate tithing I believe that this should not be dissected in front of your bishop.
I also would be hesitant to meet with the bishop with a spouse that I felt might contradict what I am saying.
In my situation, how I present myself before the bishop is intentionally crafted to keep my options open. It would be extremely frustrating as well as potentially doing lasting damage for that spouse to undercut my message in real time before the bishop.
In summary, I do not believe there are any winners when a couple has a doctrinal disagreement in front of a church leader.
I would agree. My wife believes in paying on nearly gross (it’s OK not to pay on Social Security or retirement deductions because you’ll pay on that later when you potentially get more than you put in), I believe in paying on net. I do the paying of tithing, so I pay on net for me and her version of gross for her. In TR interviews (since I don’t go to tithing settlement and neither does she) I answer the question “yes.” I have never given any explanation to the bishop about how I determine what I pay, I simply answer the yes or no question.
DarkJedi wrote:
Roy wrote:
Hi Kipper,However you calculate tithing I believe that this should not be dissected in front of your bishop.
I also would be hesitant to meet with the bishop with a spouse that I felt might contradict what I am saying.
In my situation, how I present myself before the bishop is intentionally crafted to keep my options open. It would be extremely frustrating as well as potentially doing lasting damage for that spouse to undercut my message in real time before the bishop.
In summary, I do not believe there are any winners when a couple has a doctrinal disagreement in front of a church leader.
I would agree. My wife believes in paying on nearly gross (it’s OK not to pay on Social Security or retirement deductions because you’ll pay on that later when you potentially get more than you put in), I believe in paying on net. I do the paying of tithing, so I pay on net for me and her version of gross for her. In TR interviews (since I don’t go to tithing settlement and neither does she) I answer the question “yes.” I have never given any explanation to the bishop about how I determine what I pay, I simply answer the yes or no question.
Those are smart approaches, it would have been good for me to have thought ahead of time but it was actually spontaneous. Unfortunately I am way out of the dominant role in this relationship. Damage is done.
I don’t bother with it. The Ward is indifferent to me — they stop trying. No one has really asked me what my issues are, except our former Bishop. So, I guess, after I talked to him a year or two ago they gave out a warmed over, slimmed down, shallow version of my situation. “He was the HPGL and got offended” or something like that. They talk negatively behind my back about me, I have been told by a former council member. Conditional love and I don’t see eye to eye, I guess. I am glad your Bishop just offered encouragement and let you go. I think it’s funny your son with ASD made a blunt comment. Out of the mouth of babes comes wisdom. Really, it’s a result of their lack of filters, which causes other problems, but sometimes it’s a winner.
Glad your story is a gentle one. We need to hear these now and then, Roy.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.