To What Extent Do You Trust Church Leaders?

[Anonymous]

Old-Timer wrote:

Quote:

(He) had little idea what we were really going through.

Should he have understood better? (I have no idea, which is why I ask.)

I don’t think he should’ve necessarily known better. That’s why I don’t always follow the advice of priesthood leaders — often they are out of their league, lack empathy because of lack of experience, etcetera. Howver, I do consider the advice.

Personally, I only ask for advice when I know the issue is within the realm of their experience — so, their experience represents a limitation on how much I rely on priesthood leaders for advice.

[Anonymous]

I believe that all church leaders are equal, but that some are more equal than others.

[Anonymous]

I think all of us should be humble enough to take some advice or direction from leaders. However, we must take responsibility for ourselves, and if I have to choose between heeding advice from a leader and following my own heart, if they happen to be in conflict, I would follow my own heart and be completely open and honest with myself I am doing things for the right reasons, as far as I have capacity to discern, and trust the Spirit to guide me. There have been times I haven’t agreed with my leaders, but because the Spirit whispered to me I should follow it, I have moved forward with faith. Without such a spiritual experience, I follow my own heart.

[Anonymous]

Old-Timer wrote:

Quote:

(He) had little idea what we were really going through.

Should he have understood better? (I have no idea, which is why I ask.)

Exactly my point. If he has no idea what is really going on why should he get involved at all. Or at least he should ask questions that would enlighten him. But just to tell an anecdotal story that is suppose to make you feel better is not helpful. It is just a matter of training. Biships are not trained for some of the stuff they come up against. We want to believe that somehow they have some spiritual gift that will guide them through the minefield of personal issues. Maybe a few do but for the most part I think they are just men given a burden that is well outside their area of expertise when it comes to personal issues.

[Anonymous]

I agree, Cadence, completely – but I also believe that most of them can do much more with input from those they serve than in isolation.

I am not going to say this in ANY way as a means of casting blame – not at all, but the thought that struck me, in all honesty, is that you said clearly that you didn’t share your struggle with him. All that was left to him was an attempt to help you feel good, since you gave him nothing with which to work – and I think you would agree that you wouldn’t have accepted “spiritual answers” from him.

I’m not saying it definitely would have been any different if you had, and I’m not saying all Bishops are equal when it comes to providing counsel – and I certainly am not saying Bishops are the equal to professional counselors in these situations. I’m just saying that it was impossible for this Bishop to meet the expectation you had of him – or, perhaps more precisely, that all he could do was meet your expectation. In the situation you described, even the most discerning professional counselor couldn’t have done more.

I think that’s important for you to consider, at least.

[Anonymous]

Interesting timing, but the following was just posted on BCC by a Bishop:

Quote:

I have a been a Bishop now for 18 months and though I don’t like to talk about it online I think that it is important to know if I am to express what I want to say in this post.

Last week the wife of one of my counsellors died. She had been sick for a very long time, and though she had deteriorated quickly in the weeks preceding her passing, it was still a shock to many in the ward.

I have gone through this experience before with another family but I still felt woefully inadequate to comfort and counsel a man, who was not only 45 years my senior, but who also has been a faithful member of the Church longer than I have been alive. I love him and his wife but there was nothing I could say that did not seem trite or insignificant when faced with such overwhelming pain. As I watched him shift between reminiscent laughter and deep sadness I could not patronise nor condescend to offer hollow words of advice. I felt what it is like to despise my youth.

Within the limited scope of my life-experience, few situations have been as painful as the spiritual vacuum that I have felt sitting with him. It is not so much that I felt deserted by God but rather that I had no right to speak about experiences I have never had and could not conceive.

Yet, infantile as it seems, a scene from ‘Lars and the Real Girl’ has offered me great consolation in such circumstances. After the tragic, fatal diagnosis of Lars’ plastic girlfriend some of the women come over and sit, because ‘that is what we do in hard times’. Despite my lack of spiritual insight and my narrow capacity with language, I have been able to visit and to listen. Though I realise that this may not be what people want or expect from a Bishop, I have felt that it is all I can offer under such circumstances.

I only hope that my being-there is enough, because I can always go over and sit.

“We come over, and sit” (http://bycommonconsent.com/2010/06/29/we-come-over-and-sit/)

The comments also are interesting.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Ray. That was great. I would think it would be hard for leaders to fight the urge that out of love they want to do or say something that will make a difference and help…but even with good intentions, they are limited to their experience and knowledge…which means in some things they are not qualified to speak.

The wise leader can accept this and just “go and sit” – and offer support, even if there is nothing else that they can offer.

I have experienced this with my bishop. At times, I wanted him to provide me with answers…I pleaded with him. But I look back now and realize I expected him to be something greater because he was my bishop…but he could only do what he could…and he did sit with me and visit with me.

For that I am grateful. I think I trust him more now because he did not try to do more than he was capable of.

[Anonymous]

Maybe I’m not the best to answer this question or give opinion. However here goes. I would take anything I hear from anyone anywhere with not only a grain of salt but with a salt lick. This sounds horrible and possibly negative, but with my life experience in anything but especially at church, I’ve had to look at advice from leadership as a proverbial piece of chocolate you NEVER know what you’re going to get. Frankly I trust them only as far as I want thier advice to impact me. To be honest I have had absolutely horrible experiences with the leadership at the local level. I no longer trust them with desicions that I can’t afford to take bad advice on.

I had a bishop council me to not date my DW. This wasn’t implicit but was highly encouraged. I met this bishop the next Sunday and he asked me how things were going with my ex and if the divorce had been finalized. I was perplexed to say the least because I have never been married I had spoken to him many times when I first gone back to church and told him just about every detail of my life and why I had come back.

My now DW’s bishop told both of us simply to come to church, take the sacrament, continue plans to get married and the rest would follow. Now I’m not saying my former bishop was a bad guy but for someone, anyone to give you council as profound as to break a relationship and pursue callings etc. yet not know after weeks of sunday meetings pouring you heart out that you had to remind them that you were never married speaks volumes.

This experience as well as worse ones was not going to stop me from being happy and attending church. However I really realized I needed to take responsibility for my own spirituallity. It also re-inforced my belief in my UU approach to Mormonism. Once you take that step of becoming a ‘Freelance Mormon’ you just can’t ever go back.

Leaders are human just like the rest of us. That sword cuts both ways however. So I have come to the conclusion to take the leadership of the church for what they are. Take the good and leave the bad. When you take the responsibility of personal revelation, guidence, and decernment, I believe you become closer to HF and a stronger Christian and Latter-Day Saint.

[Anonymous]

I trust Church leaders about as far as I can throw them … and they are usually big men, and I have a bad back.

Now, most people would hear what I wrote in a very negative and pessimistic tone, but it isn’t. I don’t distrust Church leaders at all. The vast majority are truly humble and good people doing the best they can, and delivering wonderful service to others. I just don’t have much faith anymore that a “calling” automatically comes with magical powers of divination.

I am totally open to hearing advice or spiritual inspiration from others, especially from friends and family that have a really, emotional connection to me, and who have spent time to consider my well being. Why not listen to people that truly care about you? I can’t see everything. My judgment might be clouded at times. I know it is. It is really great to get other people’s perspectives. It is wise to listen to other people who put time and effort into being spiritual leaders, and who hold the “mantle” of social focus and consciousness (people putting faith in them).

But … I am comfortable making my own decisions and accepting responsibility for them. There are two most important authorities: me, and the God that whispers from inside me. Those are the people, as adults, that we need to seek permission and approval from, the leaders that we should depend on.

[Author]

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