Today was my last Sunday for a while

[Anonymous]

I just returned with my children and ate lunch while my wife stayed for a Primary presidency meeting. She’ll break the news that their pianist will be attending other churches for a while so they can comfort her and plan around my absence.

I originally wanted to title this post “Okay, Church, you win this round,” but I can’t muster the anger for that. Mostly, I’m just sad.

Background, for the newer people here: I went through a faith crisis just about a year ago and emerged an agnostic sort-of-deist. (The word “agnostic” is doing most of the work in that description.) I occasionally get something useful or uplifting out of attending church anyway, probably because I believe strongly, though non-literally, in Christ. Most weeks, though, the 3-hour block gives other members ample opportunity to teach something that I find controlling, untruthful, or poisonous in some way, and that ruins the rest of it for me.

Aside from that, I hold everyone at arms’ length in case they find out what I really think. Maybe most of them would surprise me, but having very little social support (my wife is awesome but is only one person), I’m not going to risk it. In time, I could probably stay and carve out a comfortable enough place for myself, but recent events have shown me that it’s just not going to work.

My oldest daughter is lesbian/bisexual. After spending years being emotionally and spiritually abused by the doctrine and discourse at church, she had her own crisis of faith, and initially emerged a nuanced believer. What I see now is her getting drawn back into comfortable certainty. Her heart craves certainty, and she greatly fears the unknown. I also think that some of the discourse she reads online, which is full of hurt and anger against religion and usually affirms only the choice to have gay relationships, causes her to dig in.

My own anger at the Church does the same. I can’t even be mildly annoyed at something an apostle says without her worrying that I’ll think she’s stupid for believing. She knows in her mind that her reaction is much more a product of clinical anxiety than anything I’ve actually said or done, but her heart won’t follow her mind. After worrying, she usually retreats and retrenches.

Okay, now I’m feeling it. Church, you win this round. You can have my daughter to do with as you see fit. Convince her that she’s less than every heterosexual member while you whisper in her ear that you love her.

She’ll dig in every time church on Sunday gives me cause to be annoyed. She’ll dig in whenever she thinks something will annoy me. And when I come back home drained and lonely from having to act so politically, and I want to bring up something from church to talk about but can’t muster the energy anymore and let my frustration over it show, she’ll dig in. As long as I’m still attending, she’ll dig in if I bring up anything, and dig in if I don’t.

It’s unsustainable. The best thing to do is get away from the irritant so I can keep a cool head.

I’m visiting other churches even though I’m agnostic, for two reasons.

First, I want to find a church that practices some honest-to-goodness Christianity. Our church spends so much time, money and energy bolstering itself that there’s little left over for the rest of the world. And I want to invite my family along, so my children can know what it’s like to serve someone who isn’t like them.

Second, I hope to one day, eventually, invite my daughter to a church where she feels valued for who she truly is, rather than valued for who others demand that she must be.

The church I’m attending next week is home to a lesbian couple who just adopted a child, and a few families who are refugees from other fundamentalist religions. I’ve already attended an evening service, and the sermon was about how Paul taught against Jew-vs-gentile tribalism in the book of Romans. And at the risk of revealing myself – which is soon to be no longer an issue – there’s a big sign hanging out on the front that says this:

Quote:

All are welcome.

All are safe.

I nearly wept when I first read that sign. I can’t put into words how much I want that, for myself and my family.

[Anonymous]

Reuben wrote:

Second, I hope to one day, eventually, invite my daughter to a church where she feels valued for who she truly is, rather than valued for who others demand that she must be.

Some of the things you mention remind me of the Unitarian Universalists that I’ve visited with (I church hop once a month). It probably varies from congregation to congregation but the group I met with was very come as you are and extremely supportive of the LGBT community.

I met several people there that approach the whole ‘church’ thing as an open acknowledgement that people have a need for a community and the UU is their way of doing it. It was a blend of a secular and religious community, I’d say much more emphasis on the secular side though. They took a non-denominational approach on the religious side.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

Some of the things you mention remind me of the Unitarian Universalists that I’ve visited with (I church hop once a month). It probably varies from congregation to congregation but the group I met with was very come as you are and extremely supportive of the LGBT community.

I met several people there that approach the whole ‘church’ thing as an open acknowledgement that people have a need for a community and the UU is their way of doing it. It was a blend of a secular and religious community, I’d say much more emphasis on the secular side though. They took a non-denominational approach on the religious side.

Our local UU is very much this way. My husband and I attended it half a dozen times or more. The congregation was cool. We met three former Mormons there. But yeah what Nibbler said. It might help heal the hurt.

[Anonymous]

I was about to say, “sorry to hear about your daughter”, but that was not at ALL what I meant. I am sorry for the conflict and emotional turmoil it has caused you as a loving father.

Reuben wrote:

It’s unsustainable. The best thing to do is get away from the irritant so I can keep a cool head.

Seems like you are a bit ahead of me on your path. I came out to my wife over a year ago. It hasn’t made my marriage crumble, but it has put some distance as my wife does not want to talk about it at all in any way, shape, or form. I have been attending and even taking callings I regret as it is just a grind. The last few months have been even harder and I feel like if I keep pushing for a few more years I will explode in the middle of a meeting. I thought I had reached somewhat of a state where I could go on for a while, but with more callings pulling at my time (most of which I see a waste of time) it is getting harder. That and the tons of money I am handing over to an organization I don’t care for the way the leaders are running it.

I too may be backing off from having a calling and from attending all that much. Otherwise I feel I may regret what happens and I reinforce the angry ex-mo stereotype.

Good luck my friend.

[Anonymous]

I am at the same point as you and LH, I think. It’s interesting how, once you stop believing in the literal truth of the Church, and maybe moreso becoming agnostic, that many of what were once positive and wonderful teachings become… dangerous. I understand the need to step back for a bit, and re-evaluate. I hope one day I can co-exist with the Church. There are many wonderful members; some of the best people I’ve met. But some days I just feel… upset. And lonely.

Just this afternoon, I was extended a new calling by our new bishop (ward boundaries changed). “After much prayer and pondering, I have decided that I am not going to accept any Church assignments at this time. I’ll let you know if anything changes.” I’m happy he didn’t push for more details. I really liked him. I think it is important, even for agnostics like us, to be sure to invest in something worth investing in. Too often I’ve fallen in the habit of backing off from Church, only to spend the extra time and effort in “frivolities”, wasting my time and soul. I remember chatting with LH a while back, and he mentioned that once he quit his calling, he was going to sign up with a few non-profits (Habitat-for-Humanity, and the like). I admire your initiative to visit the other churches. We all invest in something, even if it’s nothing. It’s important to invest in something good.

Best wishes on your journey, Reuben.

[Anonymous]

Good luck Reuben! I hope you’ll still post and engage here. We need the agnostic voice!

I hope it helps you to step away, but mostly I hope it helps your daughter. The constant retrenching into an organization that (currently) teaches she will never be accepted the way she is has to be hard. I am not a mental health expert, but there has to be some aspects to her relationship with the church that are damaging, kind of like the spouse who keeps returning to an abusive relationship, being told she is loved while continuing to be abused. I hope seeing you step away and continuing to be happy (happier?) and fulfilled (more fulfilled?) will allow her to reconsider her own relationship with the church. Not that her journey is necessarily out of the church, but I find it hard to believe that our gay brothers and sisters can have an entirely healthy relationship with the church until it changes its stance, Tom Christopherson’s story not withstanding.

May you and your daughter find peace in the coming months and years.

[Anonymous]

May there be a road!

[Anonymous]

Thanks, everyone, for the ideas, well-wishes, and don’t-be-a-strangers.

My apostate brother attends UU services with his kids and likes it a lot. It’s actually the first thing I looked into, but I can’t find it in my area. Regardless, I think Christianity is a better choice for now, because there’s more common ground with the rest of my family.

DoubtingTom wrote:

I hope it helps you to step away, but mostly I hope it helps your daughter. The constant retrenching into an organization that (currently) teaches she will never be accepted the way she is has to be hard. I am not a mental health expert, but there has to be some aspects to her relationship with the church that are damaging, kind of like the spouse who keeps returning to an abusive relationship, being told she is loved while continuing to be abused. I hope seeing you step away and continuing to be happy (happier?) and fulfilled (more fulfilled?) will allow her to reconsider her own relationship with the church.

Tom, that’s exactly how I see it. My daughter, though, is currently incapable of accepting it as a valid perspective. I know exactly why: the Church is so much a part of her identity that she would regard that perspective as an attack. I have to tread very carefully.

I really wouldn’t mind if she stayed LDS. That would be fine, as long as she left enough room for doubt that she could believe that the Q15 might be wrong about people like her.

I’ve thought of more reasons to check out other churches.

The one you allude to is that it demonstrates that there are other options. I wonder if my sticking to this church has inadvertently sent the message that it’s the only option.

Another reason is more personal: I’d like to consider the possibility of deity without the biases and baggage of Mormonism.

[Anonymous]

I’ve always been impressed with Community of Christ and Greek Orthodox churches. Similarities with CoC is obvious, but Greek Orthodox believe in theosis which is similar to Mormon exaltation. They also do baptism by immersion (even baptizing infants that way–seems a little tortuous, but no sprinkling!)

[Anonymous]

mormonheretic wrote:

I’ve always been impressed with Community of Christ and Greek Orthodox churches. Similarities with CoC is obvious, but Greek Orthodox believe in theosis which is similar to Mormon exaltation. They also do baptism by immersion (even baptizing infants that way–seems a little tortuous, but no sprinkling!)

I might have trouble finding the Greek Orthodox church around here. CoC is nearby-ish – I”d have to negotiate for the car or take the train. I’d considered them, too, but forgotten. Thanks for the reminder!

[Anonymous]

Reuben wrote:

First, I want to find a church that practices some honest-to-goodness Christianity. Our church spends so much time, money and energy bolstering itself that there’s little left over for the rest of the world.

This part echos how i have felt in the past. I remember the first time I thought of this was in my pre-mission days, as a young adult. I was talking to a missionary abotu proselyting on Sunday, and wondered how it was consistent with the Sabbath since Sunday is a day or rest. He replied that a) it’s the Lord’s work, so it’s wholly appropriate on a Sunday and b) that it’s service to others.

I remember thinking “Is missionary work really service to others? Isn’t it as much about serving the interests of the church as it is about serving others??” I reflected on the tithing, time, and other offerings members are expected to give to the church, and then, let it pass.

Little did I know that the very thought would occur to me over and over again as I saw the darker side of the church through my own life experiences.

And if I can add more here — I have dedicated most of my spare time to service in the community now. It is given very little credence to the local leadership. If you indicate your time invested at church has been scaled back so you can do consistent, full-on community service, it’s not treated as a valid reason for scaling back your church service. Service to the church organization seems to come first — by a long shot.

There has been a bit of a change with the justserve.org website, but in my experience, that is for episodic service now and then — not something that is considered valid when textbook church service suffers as a result.

[Author]

Posts