- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
Hello all, I have been lurking on this site for years. It truly was an answer to my prayers at a time when I did not know if there was a place for me in the lds church. I never posted because I had to many questions to be productive in any discussion.
So I’m to Mormon to be non lds and to non Mormon to be Mormon. Yup, that pretty much sums up my church situation. Thanks to this site I know I am not alone. Unlike some I do not stay for the lds culture, that is what began my faith crisis.
Parents were converts that emphasized that they joined the church and it was up to us kids to gain our own testimonies and decide if the church was for us. It was easy for me, I loved the BOM, plan of salvation and the gospel principles were amazing. Then as I got older came DC and BOA both of which made me very uncomfortable for some reason…..oh wait maybe it was polygamy or lack of independent thought or free will. Still managed to ignore those feelings. It wasn’t until we moved from the “mission field” to the Mormon zone that I really began to wonder about the church. Dad was in the military so we moved often. In our travels we meet amazing people from all faiths and backgrounds. It was not uncommon to be one of the few lds people in an area. We were taught not to judge those that did not have the gospel in their lives and that they were loved by God. In turn we were exposed to the normal world, ie people drink, live together and were gay. It was not that big of deal even if it wasn’t our values.
Well you can imagine my shock when we moved to Utah, for the first time I was exposed to the culture of people born and raised for generations in the church. The judgmental attitude was palpable. I was asked so often if it was appropriate for my non member aunts to wear pants to church or how could our family be friends with a gay couple? Well they always won game night and I needed someone to teach me about fashion! Then came the never ending list of things you have to do in order to obtain salvation. Ok that is depressing enough but it became apparent very quickly that as a lds female my main goal in life should be to marry a rm in the temple and have children. I wanted a family not a problem, but I did take issue that that should be the extent of my personal development. The lds guys I dated were so befuddled that a lds girl would want to finish her degree and have some sort of career before having kids, oh and wait you can think for yourself? They didn’t know what to do with me. Fast forward a few years after marrying my husband in the temple and deciding the time was right for children came the new judgments of why we were infertile. We must have sinned or were being punished or my favorite after another miscarriage, well that’s what you get for being an independent woman. What the heck does that mean? I know that we shouldn’t let insults at church sway our testimonies but it made me question if the church was truly correct.
Hence the seeds of discontent were sewn. I began researching the church history and was shocked by what I found or didn’t find. As my faith crisis has progressed I have gone through the various stages and have made peace with some of my questions. I will raise my daughter in the church, however I will understand exactly what she will go through if she chooses not to toe the line. It is hard being in the middle but at least I still have my faith, thanks in large part to this site.
Dax, thanks for the introduction & welcome. I can’t believe sometimes how insensitive people can be by saying things like:
Quote:We must have sinned or were being punished or my favorite after another miscarriage, well that’s what you get for being an independent woman. What the heck does that mean?
My wife is very independent, college educated, etc. Some of the women in the church that I find interesting have the same qualities.
My wife had a miscarriage & there was a time we had difficulty getting pregnant. No one that I can remember tried to pass judgement.
I’m glad they didn’t. They would of gotten it right back.
I hope you find some degree of comfort here. Many of us understand what you’re going through.
Mike from Milton.
thanks dax for the introduction. I thank god I am in the mission field, and even at that, that I travel to get out of mormonism entirely for periods. It can be oppressive. I think it critical that each of us on this path I call the “Middle Way” establish our own beliefs and sense of identity. I am mormon, but I’m a Middle Way Mormon. I identify with the church, with the culture, but that doesn’t mean I’m voting for Romney. For some reason, anyone who talks to me: my dentist yesterday, people I went to lunch with today, seem to assume that mormons all think and operate alike. I have to immediately explain that I am not that way, and I do so without the least bit of apology.
Some people seem to think that the Middle Way is a compromise position. I do not. I think it’s a principled Way to be authentically oneself in the church.
Hang in there!
I can relate to you on many levels! I also grew up in the military (Air force) and lived in a lot of different places and subcultures. I spent most of my adult life in the East Valley of Arizona which is heavily LDS compared to most states, but nothing like Utah… it is very real world! My different experiences led me to have a much more open mind than most.
I moved to Utah in 2006 and it was a terrible culture shock! Utah does everything their own way- almost as if they are their own little country. The hardest part is the social club. It doesn’t feel like a church here. It’s just an elite club whose memebers spend the whole time trying to figure out who is better than who by outward appearances. I am too much of a rebel to play the appearance game and one of my core values has always been to be as authentic as possible. I figured people will either love me or not but at least they will know who I am and when people love me, it’s real. That doesn’t fly very well in Utah. Needless to say I don’t get invited to many birthday parties.
DISCLAIMER— I have met several good people in Utah and I will defend that not ALL Utahans are like that. But unfortunately my experience has seem to be it is most.
I don’t fit with the complete Jack Mormons either, or the Nons. I had a terrible time dating after my divorce because so many guys just wanted a women who would just play the game and I won’t. (Even though they all said “I want a woman who doesn’t play games. Such irony. They expect a woman to play games with everyone else, just not them!) So the Jacks loved me but I didn’t want that. If I had known there were actually so many more people out there like me and where to look I think things would have been so much different! I still don’t know any actual PEOPLE with whom I fit, but at least I have the virtual friends here.
Also, I have a bunch of kids with my first husband who are mostly all older now. My 2nd and I wanted to have 2 kids of our own. That’s when the miscarriages started. It was so very heartbreaking. Really, my heart goes out to you. None of the members around here know what I went through, but I shutter to think what they would say if they did. I was already ostracized from the club by that point because of rumors flying around about my husband which no one ever even showed up to ask me if any were true or what was going on or if I was OK. Instead it was as if my entire property from the sidewalk up was infected with the plague. In fact, two of my 12 year daughter’s friends (from two different families) told her they were not allowed to hang out with her anymore. They still sneak when they can but it is against their parents’ wishes. And get this- one of the girls is the daughter of the Relief Society President. How is that for fellow shipping?
Anyway, I know where you are coming from. Don’t give up. You are not alone.
Dax wrote:Hello all,
I have been lurking on this site for years. It truly was an answer to my prayers at a time when I did not know if there was a place for me in the lds church. I never posted because I had to many questions to be productive in any discussion.
So I’m to Mormon to be non lds and to non Mormon to be Mormon. Yup, that pretty much sums up my church situation. Thanks to this site I know I am not alone. Unlike some I do not stay for the lds culture, that is what began my faith crisis.
Parents were converts that emphasized that they joined the church and it was up to us kids to gain our own testimonies and decide if the church was for us. It was easy for me, I loved the BOM, plan of salvation and the gospel principles were amazing. Then as I got older came DC and BOA both of which made me very uncomfortable for some reason…..oh wait maybe it was polygamy or lack of independent thought or free will. Still managed to ignore those feelings. It wasn’t until we moved from the “mission field” to the Mormon zone that I really began to wonder about the church. Dad was in the military so we moved often. In our travels we meet amazing people from all faiths and backgrounds. It was not uncommon to be one of the few lds people in an area. We were taught not to judge those that did not have the gospel in their lives and that they were loved by God. In turn we were exposed to the normal world, ie people drink, live together and were gay. It was not that big of deal even if it wasn’t our values.
Well you can imagine my shock when we moved to Utah, for the first time I was exposed to the culture of people born and raised for generations in the church. The judgmental attitude was palpable. I was asked so often if it was appropriate for my non member aunts to wear pants to church or how could our family be friends with a gay couple? Well they always won game night and I needed someone to teach me about fashion! Then came the never ending list of things you have to do in order to obtain salvation. Ok that is depressing enough but it became apparent very quickly that as a lds female my main goal in life should be to marry a rm in the temple and have children. I wanted a family not a problem, but I did take issue that that should be the extent of my personal development. The lds guys I dated were so befuddled that a lds girl would want to finish her degree and have some sort of career before having kids, oh and wait you can think for yourself? They didn’t know what to do with me. Fast forward a few years after marrying my husband in the temple and deciding the time was right for children came the new judgments of why we were infertile. We must have sinned or were being punished or my favorite after another miscarriage, well that’s what you get for being an independent woman. What the heck does that mean? I know that we shouldn’t let insults at church sway our testimonies but it made me question if the church was truly correct.
Hence the seeds of discontent were sewn. I began researching the church history and was shocked by what I found or didn’t find. As my faith crisis has progressed I have gone through the various stages and have made peace with some of my questions. I will raise my daughter in the church, however I will understand exactly what she will go through if she chooses not to toe the line. It is hard being in the middle but at least I still have my faith, thanks in large part to this site.
I feel a lot of what you are saying, but you know, I’ve found personally, my unorthodoxy is rich with conflict and then as a result of such conflict — new ideas for the people I associate with at Church. Honestly — I got asked to teach HP Group on a regular basis because “I make people think” — unquote. Strange that in a church where everyone believes we value conformity and non-thinking, that I would be called to a position because “I make people think”.
It’s because I’m disagreeing with them!!!! Disagreeing with the judgmentalism, disagreeing with the tendency to pin it all on the member when there is doubt and disaffection, disagreeing that we sustain leaders by humbly doing everything they say…disagreeing that we should never say “No” to a calling, disagreeing that we should never be asked to be released, and actually finding statements from church leaders, the scriptures, and official declarations that support what I’m saying. But disagreeing without being offensive and having defensible qualifiers and containment fields that validate the sometimes false notions we have in the church — but only within certain parameters.
You have a great opportunity in front of you — to inoculate your daughter. To give her a sense of freedom to chose whichever way she wants to go (stay at home Mom, or career person, or hybrid) and love herself no matter what choice she makes — as YOUR influence is likely more powerful than what she hears at Church. With my own daughter, she knows that in some families, it’s better if the wife goes out to work. how does she know? I have shared my experience in our family, and how my daughter attended a Montessori school while my wife worked when she was a toddler — how my wife was happier, I was happier, and how my daughter realizes she benefited greatly from the organization and structure she would not have received at home. how she recognizes strengths that bring her peace from the organization and structure she got in her daycare/Montessori school. She also knows that I am happier, our family happier when we have a lot of income to then use for things that help make our lives easier, better and more fulfilling.
Strangely, she seems to be choosing the hybrid, although she’s only 13 now. She wants to have a career, but she wants to be a mother, and she has identified a woman in the Ward she identifies with and whose habits she would like to emulate – but with significant modification she tells me.
it’s so wonderful to see my daughter choosing her OWN PATH in the church. The path I’ve taken in teaching her to not accept all the cultural norms she hears at church has led to some great strength lately. She doesnt’ care to wear the latest clothes (vans, abercrombie-fitch stuff) just to be popular. Someone said to her that she could be popular if only she dressed differently — and she said “I don’t want to dress differently just to be popular”.
I came into her room the other day, was moved when I saw that she had placed an applique on her wall that says “In a world where you can be anything, BE YOURSELF”. I asked her why she picked that — and she said “Because you taught me that a long time ago”.
I left feeling very satisfied that my unorthodoxy at church has led to a girl who celebrates herself. My hope is that she will take away the best of what the church has to offer while maintaining her sense of critical thinking.
Hi Dax, Welcome to StayLDS.com!
It’s wonderful to read your story, thanks for coming out of lurkerdom and joining the conversation. I look forward to learning from your posts!
From reading all of the statements above from an outside perspective I could determine: 1) If Jesus were on earth today, he would find 90% of the pharisees in the LDS Church.
2) Untrained bishops who don’t know what they are doing half of the time. (I have heard a member get two different opinions from two different bishops on the same matter).
3) LDS (cookie-cutter) are so socially into themselves that they cannot relate to those outside of the flock, or those within the flock that are quite different, or who don’t have the average existence of those within the LDS Cultural bubble.
anthropological term: ethnocentric.
4) Political Neutrality – Now how on earth were the members politically neutral when Joseph Smith ran for president? Political neutrality is the way of least resistance. So, maybe I should be like the Jehovah’s Witnesses and not vote at all – that would be politically neutral. I thought neutral meant you are neither for or against someone.
Thank you all for your comments and thoughts! They are truly appreciated! It is interesting how so much can depend on the ward itself. We have moved yet again and are currently in a very progressive, educated, open minded ward. It is so refreshing. I think that the biggest difference of this ward is that there is a fantastic mix of seniors, families with all teenagers, just starting out young families, and single individuals. It helps to bring a more balanced perspective to the ward and no one group dominates.
SD, it sounds as if you are raising an amazing daughter! Thank you for your words of advice. I hope that someday my daughter can have as much personal strength and individuality as your daughter. Also it is such an amazing thing that you get to teach and perhaps open a few minds. You are right, I should look at the middle as an opportunity not a lesser faith.
Thank you all again! Thank you also for having a place for those with questions!
Dax
Dax, thank you for sharing your introduction! I was very interested in it. Having never lived in UT and surrounding areas, the cultural things haven’t stood out so much for me. We have a little bit of it in our area, but there are many others who are more open minded. I agree with SD about innoculating your daughter. There are many working LDS women today. Isn’t it funny though, how much it can vary from one ward or area to another? Welcome, Dax. 🙂 I know too well what you mean about the difference between the experience of Mormonism in Utah & other places.
I’ve also had my share of an exaggerated version of “So, Santa isn’t real?” feeling.
I’m beginning to see that so much of life is just made up stories we or others tell.
If I had to chuck out all of the fibs, I wouldn’t have much left.
😆 Sure, some are doozies… & those I’m trying to stay clear of.
Yet… as another poster explained, the trick is to find the middle way & “functional illusions.”
I have to agree that Utah was a huge culture shock to me as well. But it’s just its own culture, not the gospel. Because I’ve lived elsewhere plenty, I can separate the two. Most wards I’ve lived in haven’t been like that. Closer to Salt Lake City does not equate to closer to truth.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.