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So I have been staying away from HP meetings because of the silly sounding comments and personal opinions that are made during the lesson but last week I read the lesson ahead of time and decided to give it another try. The lesson was on temporal and spiritual welfare. A good topic I thought and maybe the teacher will stay on topic. I even took some excerpts from the chapter and shared them as a Family Night message that went well. Back to HP meeting, one of the counselors is outspoken and shares his out of context opinions regularly. This week he decided to harp on the “..all kids on the team get a trophy…” idea and how it ruins their temporal well being later in life. Now the problem for me is not so much anyone’s opinion but how it is shared in a setting where it can be used to define a point, in this case his point. I’m not going to go on with the details but it was brought up so many times that it started to influence the direction of the lesson and inspired others to make agreeable comments. BTW he was not the instructor nor does he have any children.
That’s not all, the instructor felt it necessary to make his own point by giving us a warning about our nations most serious enemies who have the capability to launch EMP (electromagnetic pulse) missiles that can and would fry any electronics in a wide area disabling our infrastructure, our cars and transportation, our computers etc., so we need to be ready, temporally and spiritually I guess.
Rather than discuss the validity of these points I want to know from you what the heck are we trying to do in this church? Do we need so many analogies and warnings to make us feel good about our teachings? It seems to me that leaders appoint subordinate leaders with like personalities which is common in any institution but strays from the “inspired from God” appointments they claim.
Lastly, what am I supposed to do now? I haven’t shared all my upsetting moments through the years here but there have been too many to keep inside while attending. And there have been several dead end meetings with my former bishop. This may be the last straw for me. I am no longer a spiritual member lead by spiritual feelings. Coincidentally I was contacted by the bishopric an hour ago asking me to give a talk in two weeks. I said I would get back. Weak and cowardly on my part? Or maybe I just feel what’s the use.
Kipper: Good to see you here and posting. You have been missed.
About talking in church. Do it! I was asked last spring and at first, I did a full freak out as I tried to figure out what I could talk about honestly while in full FC. Then I got a grip. I talked about the importance of being the right kind of Mormon for my life .. And not anyone else’s. I used the Aesop’s fable of the donkey being led to market and every little town had an opinion about who should be riding on the donkey. Went on to talk about the importance of having a plan for yourself and your family, and following YOUR plan. The importance of being the right type of member for YOUR life. I got requests for copies for a couple months afterwards .. People seemed to crave that message.
About EMP’s .. A sign of terminal HP lesson boredom. Maybe you should teach that too. You were probably the only person to read the manual in advance!!
I agree with AP, take the opportunity to speak. We have some of the same problems in our HP group, and in fact it sounds like we may have had a similar discussion last week (I did not participate, that’s why I carry a tablet). I was actually wondering the same thing – is this really the gospel? What does this have to do with the atonement? I don’t recall Jesus teaching his disciples in the Bible that they needed to have a year’s supply of food or plant a garden. I’m all for being prepared for disasters, I live in a place that floods and we go for a few days without power when that happens (I don’t know whose bright engineering feat it was to build the substation next to the river). But to me that’s separate from spiritual preparedness or spirituality itself. I don’t know why we feel the need to work on fear and guilt, but it bugs the heck out of me. So, if I feel I can say something constructive without offending, I do – otherwise I occupy myself with my tablet or phone.
Kipper wrote:Rather than discuss the validity of these points I want to know from you what the heck are we trying to do in this church? Do we need so many analogies and warnings to make us feel good about our teachings? It seems to me that leaders appoint subordinate leaders with like personalities which is common in any institution but strays from the “inspired from God” appointments they claim.
Let them pontificate. It helps them feel better about themselves. Don’t deny them that. I usually sit and think to myself how differently I see it than they do. Should anyone ask me my opinion, I’m ready to give it. (They never do).
Quote:Lastly, what am I supposed to do now? I haven’t shared all my upsetting moments through the years here but there have been too many to keep inside while attending. And there have been several dead end meetings with my former bishop. This may be the last straw for me. I am no longer a spiritual member lead by spiritual feelings. Coincidentally I was contacted by the bishopric an hour ago asking me to give a talk in two weeks. I said I would get back. Weak and cowardly on my part? Or maybe I just feel what’s the use.
You’re being given the pulpit, you’ll have a microphone…use it! I bet there are people in the congregation that need to hear your take on things.You can’t let just one loud voice in HPG be the only voice people hear in that ward.
Did they give you a topic? Or do you have control of that too?
Kipper: If we were all together, we would be banging cups on the table and yelling “SPEECH” at you.
In two weeks, return and report!
Hey.. Isn’t that Thanksgiving weekend??
amateurparent wrote:Kipper:
If we were all together, we would be banging cups on the table and yelling “SPEECH” at you.
In two weeks, return and report!
Hey.. Isn’t that Thanksgiving weekend??
Yes it is Thanksgiving weekend. They first asked me to speak on the 22nd but I will be at a seminar that weekend. I thought about it all day today while doing a 12 hour chore (I am out of work right now) and still don’t feel too excited about speaking although I am listening here. My problem is that I am not going to be able to project a “spiritual countenance” or even prepare with a spiritual feeling meaning I will be preparing a presentation rather than an uplifting talk. There is not yet a topic. Maybe I could refine the Temporal and Spiritual Well Being lesson in my OP. I am just having a real problem with even being at church right now.
Lots of people have a tough time being at church. Talk about THAT. Years ago, I handed out 3×5 cards in RS and asked everyone to write down why they came to church. I wanted honest answers. Then I read them to the group. Only one card said “for the lessons”. Every other card was for the companionship. To see my friends. To meet people who share my beliefs. To be surrounded by others who care. Etc. Every person — except one — showed up to interact with people.
People are starving for social acceptance. They don’t find it in our media. They hope to find it at church. Too often, they leave feeling beat up.
amateurparent wrote:Lots of people have a tough time being at church. Talk about THAT.
Years ago, I handed out 3×5 cards in RS and asked everyone to write down why they came to church. I wanted honest answers. Then I read them to the group. Only one card said “for the lessons”. Every other card was for the companionship. To see my friends. To meet people who share my beliefs. To be surrounded by others who care. Etc. Every person — except one — showed up to interact with people.
People are starving for social acceptance. They don’t find it in our media. They hope to find it at church. Too often, they leave feeling beat up.
I’m super interested in this topic right now, AP.Why does the church work for some and why does it not for some?
If they don’t feel people share their beliefs, or they feel no connection…is there any reason to be there? (Not a rhetorical question…I’m interested in what people think about what there is for us if we feel we don’t fit in with what we hear being said at church?)
I think too many varied opinions are kept silent…and so…people only think what is said out loud is what everyone else must be thinking…and are a bit surprised when a piccolo makes it’s sound amid the orchestra (to refer to that orchestra analogy again). Should the piccolos join in, or just stay quiet longer? What makes it worth it to try to find social acceptance? How many times would they be accepted if they just tried…instead of assuming they don’t fit in based on internal assumptions?
If you don’t vote, you can’t complain about the person who wins. Just saying.
Heber13 wrote:amateurparent wrote:Lots of people have a tough time being at church. Talk about THAT.
Years ago, I handed out 3×5 cards in RS and asked everyone to write down why they came to church. I wanted honest answers. Then I read them to the group. Only one card said “for the lessons”. Every other card was for the companionship. To see my friends. To meet people who share my beliefs. To be surrounded by others who care. Etc. Every person — except one — showed up to interact with people.
People are starving for social acceptance. They don’t find it in our media. They hope to find it at church. Too often, they leave feeling beat up.
I’m super interested in this topic right now, AP.Why does the church work for some and why does it not for some?
If they don’t feel people share their beliefs, or they feel no connection…is there any reason to be there? (Not a rhetorical question…I’m interested in what people think about what there is for us if we feel we don’t fit in with what we hear being said at church?)
I think too many varied opinions are kept silent…and so…people only think what is said out loud is what everyone else must be thinking…and are a bit surprised when a piccolo makes it’s sound amid the orchestra (to refer to that orchestra analogy again). Should the piccolos join in, or just stay quiet longer? What makes it worth it to try to find social acceptance? How many times would they be accepted if they just tried…instead of assuming they don’t fit in based on internal assumptions?
Not too may people (outside this forum) are interested in why church works for some and not for others. It usually turns into a “Personal Apostasy” answer. It always ends with the comment that people stop reading scripture, stop praying, start hiding a sin etc then fall away. There is never a thought about an unresolved issue that pushes someone into doubt.
So sorry to disappoint but I turned down the assignment today. I wasn’t sure until the last minute. Today the 2nd counselor asked me formally to talk in a few weeks and handed me a sheet with the topic “Tithing”. I freaked out and I said honestly I cannot talk about something I can’t testify to. I’m sure it would be obvious. He was visibly taken back but said OK. Later in the evening I got a call from the secretary asking me to meet the bishop Tuesday night. He is new as of about a month ago and a very humble man, never the less I have a lot on my plate I need to talk about. I may start a new thread because some of it I have brought up here and I will surely need some advice on my approach.
Kipper wrote:So sorry to disappoint but I turned down the assignment today. I wasn’t sure until the last minute. Today the 2nd counselor asked me formally to talk in a few weeks and handed me a sheet with the topic “Tithing”. I freaked out and I said honestly I cannot talk about something I can’t testify to. I’m sure it would be obvious. He was visibly taken back but said OK.
Later in the evening I got a call from the secretary asking me to meet the bishop Tuesday night. He is new as of about a month ago and a very humble man, never the less I have a lot on my plate I need to talk about. I may start a new thread because some of it I have brought up here and I will surely need some advice on my approach.
I haven’t been in this thread so far, but just have to say that these are the moments I like to picture: honest ones! Assuming freaking out wasn’t mean or violent,
Maybe this is still going to work out well for you and your leaders. I hope to hear about the meeting.
Ann wrote:Kipper wrote:So sorry to disappoint but I turned down the assignment today. I wasn’t sure until the last minute. Today the 2nd counselor asked me formally to talk in a few weeks and handed me a sheet with the topic “Tithing”. I freaked out and I said honestly I cannot talk about something I can’t testify to. I’m sure it would be obvious. He was visibly taken back but said OK.
Later in the evening I got a call from the secretary asking me to meet the bishop Tuesday night. He is new as of about a month ago and a very humble man, never the less I have a lot on my plate I need to talk about. I may start a new thread because some of it I have brought up here and I will surely need some advice on my approach.
I haven’t been in this thread so far, but just have to say that these are the moments I like to picture: honest ones! Assuming freaking out wasn’t mean or violent,
Maybe this is still going to work out well for you and your leaders. I hope to hear about the meeting.
Yes, it was an honest moment inspired by years of frustration moments of not speaking up. I do pay a full tithe but only because I am being obedient. I am curious how that goes over in our discussion. BTW, I freaked out internally which is normal for me but was quite docile on the outside. Candor at church is filtered out during Primary age (IMHO).
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