TR Question Survey – Question 10b: Word of Wisdom

[Anonymous]

Mike wrote:

You pose an interesting question. But, being an Alcoholic, if I drank today, can I answer tomorrow that I’m living the WoW?

Either you are or you aren’t. I’ve got to think about this more before I go to the interview.

bc_pg, you won’t see me anytime soon on a “commercial” for the Church sitting in a coffee shop & reading the Ensign.

Needless to say, I’m in a remote portion of the kingdom.

I wonder what OPR would do?

If you had a drink today, OPR would match you, shot for shot. Either that, our you could select one of his fine beers at his brewery.

Wikipedia wrote:

It was Porter’s fame as a “mountain man” that attracted the explorer Richard Francis Burton to him[citation needed]. In 1860, on his trip across America to the west coast, Burton stopped to explore Salt Lake City and its environs. He stayed with Bishop Lysander Dayton (from Ohio) in a village near the city one evening and Dayton invited Porter Rockwell to dinner. Porter sent for a bottle of Valley Tan Whiskey and he and Burton drank shot for shot into the night with Porter outlining steps that Burton should take for safety during his passage to Sacramento.

Porter operated the Hot Springs Hotel and Brewery at the southern end of the Salt Lake Valley, in an area known as “Point of the Mountain.” The former site of the hotel is now on the grounds of a state prison. A nearby stone marker commemorates the spot.[

Seriously, though, as we who are or have been alcoholics know, we only have today, one day at a time. If you weren’t drinking today, you’d be ‘keeping the word of wisdom’ in the present tense, even if yesterday you didn’t. I’m not recommending this answer, however.

I thought of you a lot as I have posted the opening post here in this thread. Please understand that I completely and totally respect you in your daily walk as one of Bill’s friends. I walked that path for many years, and it was a significant part of my spiritual program. I walk a different path now, but it is not ‘superior’ to yours by any stretch — just different, and I find this very challenging, but necessary for reasons I can’t go into here.

I really loved your post — all of it.

[Anonymous]

Yes – I follow the current, “accepted” interpretation of the WofW AND what I want to follow concerning the spirit of D&C 89. I eat meat regularly but in quantities I consider to be moderate (sparingly, very loosely defined); I eat fruits and grains and try to make it as healthy as I can (and I’ve focused more on that over the last few months – and lost weight accordingly, btw); I don’t partake of any currently “prohibited” substances (both because of what I know about myself and because I don’t care about those substances in any way and won’t partake simply to take a stance of any kind); I love the general idea of the strong sacrificing for the good of the weak; I believe the focus on future addiction peddlers was prophetic to the core; etc.

I don’t agree with lots of the justifications other people use to follow the WofW, but mine makes sense to me. I have no desire to not follow this one.

[Anonymous]

I believe that I must take the same approach with the WoW that I did with Tithing.

Make a decision concerning what the WoW means in my personal journey.

Pray about it & seeks Gods influence in my decision.

If it’s wrong, God can tell me.

Make changes if needed.

Again, I’m not trying to be sarcastic or justify my actions to fit the situation.

I always want to remember what many of you said.

Knowing it is more important to live the spirit of the law then the letter.

This will require more thought, prayer & discussions with my Wife.

I trust her opinions too.

wayfarer, you make me smile. OPR was really a character in church history. He was a spirit with real “texture”.

Mike from Milton.

[Anonymous]

My children’s Tae Kwon Do instructor taught me his view on religious dietary counsel. He considers himself more Judeo-Christian than any other style of faith. That said he has studied many of them and practices a real combination of them. I asked him about how he defined religion, he had three definers, – an act of divinity, a strict health code, and regular required rituals. These he said sculpt the soul. I really pondered that for a bit. I too am a follower of our WofW, and have some very personal reasons why I do, those reasons have little bearing on church teaching. It is more from watching others experiences. That said I do wish we obeyed it Joseph’s way, because I believe if we followed it with that faith and direction of moderation we would find more souls healed because there would be love instead of judgement against the people incumbered by the negative challenges with it. Does that make any sense? If not forgive me, it’s been a long day.

[Anonymous]

Actually…that makes a LOT of sense mom3.

Oh yeah…jwald says hi. We missed you at the last meetup at McMennamins.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

[Anonymous]

Yes. But I believe that I should use the best information available to take care of the temple that is my body. I believe that the revelation in section 89 is to be wise and use the best information and judgement available. Two examples: 1) wheat is not for this man nor are other grains – Celiac is difficult to live with so I can’t follow that part of it as the church interprets it; 2) I believe the best available evidence is that occasional use of wine has many health benefits that are applicable to my genetic health risks – so I would be unwise to not use that to take care of my body/temple. Be wise is the underlying principle – if I do that then I am keeping the word of wisdom.

[Anonymous]

This is one of the three reasons I choose not to hold a temple recommend. I do not feel “unworthy” in the least to be in the temple. I actually really like the idea of the temple and have never felt closer to God or more free from sin. And having spent a great deal of time and energy studying the historical development of the collection of Mormon temple ritual, I appreciated it even more post-transition.

That being said, I voted “No” on this question.

I hold no judgment against others who say “yes” and consume the forbidden four. I can appreciate the arguments against the WoW not being a commandment AND also being flexible to include any health practice we receive via personal revelation (aka studying the best advice, whatever). I’m totally cool with all that, but it isn’t my approach. I am so far outside their box that I feel I would be dishonest (or would cause harm) by answering yes, even if they are wrong in asking.

My #1 snag is that I want ZERO hassle about hiding what I do. I won’t hide it. I don’t go out of my way to broadcast it or wear a Scarlet “W” on my clothing to warn others. But I will tell anyone who asks, if they really want to know. I don’t want this to be held over my head in any way.

I think the modern/common interpretation of the WoW is wrong and way off base, but it *IS* the interpretation held by those who will judge me for access. It’s their building. They make the rules. I don’t really want to argue with them about their rules. In fact, I feel that arguing would probably cause them harm, and in some small way *that* would be a sin to me according to my current paradigm (just a minor point to me).

My personal views are very much in line with what Wayfarer described in his original response. He may agree with this additional observation of mine: I have consumed “prohibited” items in the past and it was a violation of keeping the WoW. I have also consumed them and it was not a violation of the WoW.

A while ago these words of Jesus struck a very deep chord in my soul (and I believe these were probably real words the historical man Jesus spoke, in addition to being wise words from the idealized archetype “The Christ”):

Quote:

Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man. -Matt 15:11 KJV

I think this applies to far more than just dietary law. This is a deep spiritual concept with profound implications that strikes into the heart of intention, desire and action in the world (or being acted upon).

When I was a young man, I drank alcohol to excess, did drugs, smoked cigarettes occasionally, coffee, etc. the whole deal. I did this with a spirit of self-destruction. I was very unhappy and angry. I remember many times thinking that I wanted to poison myself into oblivion or unconsciousness. But you see? It wasn’t what I was putting into my body that was “defiling” my soul, it was the sadness and anger that was coming out of me. I was pouring drugs and alcohol into my mouth, and pouring darkness and emptiness out of my mouth.

That past of mine, to me, was a violation of the spiritual and literal/physical law of The Word of Wisdom.

Drinking alcohol is not a sin to me, not even to the point of becoming intoxicated. Becoming intoxicated and harming others or myself though? That’s a sin that varies in defilement according to the harm caused. I’m just using that as an example.

I spent many years following the standard interpretation, starting when I decided to go on a mission. That period lasted a good 15 or more years, except perhaps a rare cup of coffee. I let go of this though a few years ago after I dug really deep into the history of our current WoW interpretation. I lost all faith in depending on the authority of other people for guidance in this matter.

I also realized I was a happy person, indeed by that point in my life I was a new person, like someone re-born. I was no longer the old dark and self-hating person from my youth who was focused on self-destruction. I can consume whatever I wish with prudence and thanksgiving. I have no physical moderation problems in this area that bother me personally/spiritually.

My biggest problem with the WoW is that I found out I do not have a problem with the WoW.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Brian.

Brian Johnston wrote:

My biggest problem with the WoW is that I found out I do not have a problem with the WoW.

+1

[Anonymous]

cwald wrote:

Thanks Brian.

Brian Johnston wrote:

My biggest problem with the WoW is that I found out I do not have a problem with the WoW.

+1

+2

I think we all need to have a virtual chat on cwald’s porch and try some of his home-made mild drinks made of barley.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

I think we all need to have a virtual chat on cwald’s porch and try some of his home-made mild drinks made of barley.

I’d love the chat, but I wouldn’t be partaking of the drinks. I have NO problem being with people who are drinking, but I don’t drink with them.

I respect cwald’s and Brian’s views GREATLY, but they don’t work in practical terms for me. I want the chat to be open to those who drink and to those who don’t drink – and I think that’s not a little thing.

(I know you agree with that, wayfarer, but I just wanted to respond to the actual words you wrote. Sound familiar?)

[Anonymous]

Old-Timer wrote:

I respect cwald’s and Brian’s views GREATLY, but they don’t work in practical terms for me. I want the chat to be open to those who drink and to those who don’t drink – and I think that’s not a little thing.

(I know you agree with that, wayfarer, but I just wanted to respond to the actual words you wrote. Sound familiar?)

I’m sure cwald can arrange some home-made root beer as well.

And, since it’s virtual, you can drink anything you want! Mormon Tea, Postum (oops – no longer made), Near Beer (oops, .1% alcohol: not allowed), Coke, Red Bull (unless you’re in bc_pg’s wife’s ward), or welch’s grape juice…

[Anonymous]

That sounds heavenly, as long as I can choose my drink and not have to swill some of the crap on your list. :wtf:

[Anonymous]

Old-Timer wrote:

That sounds heavenly, as long as I can choose my drink and not have to swill some of the crap on your list. :wtf:

If I had to choose one drink that I find the absolute most heavenly of all, it would be freshly squeezed orange juice. To me, that is pure ecstasy.

and one thing i find absolutely true in the word of wisdom: a ripe fruit in its season is the best. When a tree-ripened Utah peach is ready, it’s absolutely magnificent. I tell my wife “It’s better than sex”, and then suddenly there are a bunch of peaches in the pantry….I wonder what she’s trying to tell me…

[Anonymous]

I love to read my great grandfather’s diary where he complains about how much harder it is to get people to come to the dances he is organizing when the bishop won’t let him serve beer.

[Anonymous]

I always found that beer helped me to dance better.

Or, maybe I didn’t care how I danced.

It’s one or the other. I don’t remember.

Mike from Milton.

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