- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
Quote:
and one thing i find absolutely true in the word of wisdom: a ripe fruit in its season is the best. When a tree-ripened Utah peach is ready, it’s absolutely magnificent.
Every year the fresh peach shakes at Taco Amigo (if you live in Utah Valley) are out of this world.
For me the answer is yes. I do think that if I am going to use the historical definition of the WoW, that I would also have to accept other historical doctrine as well.
Since I’m not cool with polygamy, blacks not having the priesthood, etc. I choose the modern definition of the WoW.
For me, my commitment to not partaking of the big 4 is separate from my feelings about the church. I become addicted to things easily. I know myself well enough to know that I would drink coffee all day, not just a cup in the morning, that I would drink a lot of alcohol, and drink it often, and smoke quite frequently. For me, it is the best choice to stay away, because I have a hard time with moderation.
rebeccad wrote:For me the answer is yes.
I do think that if I am going to use the historical definition of the WoW, that I would also have to accept other historical doctrine as well.
Since I’m not cool with polygamy, blacks not having the priesthood, etc. I choose the modern definition of the WoW.
For me, my commitment to not partaking of the big 4 is separate from my feelings about the church. I become addicted to things easily. I know myself well enough to know that I would drink coffee all day, not just a cup in the morning, that I would drink a lot of alcohol, and drink it often, and smoke quite frequently. For me, it is the best choice to stay away, because I have a hard time with moderation.
Excellent R….that is an very good personal insight into your spiritual journey.
We do not all fit in the box…so it is nice to see and hear when the church works and fits and helps folks progress. Thank you.
As for myself…I sit out in my personal oasis in shorts and sandals on this 95 degree day, sipping on my home made brew, and just give thanks for life and send a little positive energy SD’s way. Cheers friends.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2
I would like to add that I fully believe people can follow the WoW as a devotional practice and find great spiritual and health benefit too. It doesn’t need any justification. I totally support folks who do so, and admire their devotion and discipline. I think avoidance of the forbidden four could be a very spiritual practice, even after faith transition changes one’s perspective. There is something of power, in a way, to setting one’s self apart from “the world” in some shape or form. I feel the same way about other religious cultures — not eating pork, or being vegetarian, etc.
Brian, your earlier post hit it so square for me, I can’t imagine how to improve it. A few years ago, after discovering the historical timeline of the WoW, I decided that I’d have a beer. I really like the taste – picked up a taste for it in my wayward youth
😆 So I had a beer with dinner, twice, in about a month. Then I ultimately decided that I wasn’t going to drink for the same reason Brian says he won’t parse language on the question – I don’t want to have to hide it. It’s really only a minor sacrifice for me – I really do like the taste, and would thoroughly enjoy a beer with dinner, but it’s not that hard not to.Another reason – in a former life I’ve prosecuted and defended a whole bunch of criminal cases. Over 85% involve either a violation of the WoW (modern interpretation) or the LoC. I had the misfortune of both prosecuting and defending over 20 adult-victim sex offenses, and EVERY SINGLE ONE involved two drunk people. This is likely a subject for another thread (and probably for another blog), but from my experience in the crim justice system, the number one thing a woman can do as a preventative measure against being sexually assaulted is to not over-indulge in alcohol.
For all of the above, I don’t drink a beer every now and then, although I really don’t think I’d be violating the true WoW.
I’m gonna vote YES…. However, I eat way too much meat…probably every day.
I drink beer, but I don’t over-indulge…..and I don’t drink hard liquor or wine.
I enjoy a good cigar when fly-fishing from time to time.
For a formal TR interview, I would flunk. Between me and the Lord, I feel that I’m just fine.
Well, except the meat thing.
I can’t help but remembering Joseph Smith’s admonition (paraphrasing)…. “If anything contradicts a former revelation, put it down as a lie”. Making a suggestion that is clearly meant to be “NOT a commandment” into a “commandment”….is a contradiction. Please straighten me out if I’m incorrect here.
So…IMHO…If you are taking it as “good advise” and not some “commandment”….you ARE living the WoW….
Right?
Joseph Smith warned us and what did we do? ….. Fell right into it. And here we are.
Personally, I’d love to take a time machine back to Nauvoo and share a beer with the prophet. I’d also love to talk with Brigham Young regarding Adam-God and the “racism” thing …. I can’t help but wonder what his reaction would be if I told him that in the future, if he wanted to be a temple worker…he would have to shave.
God bless us all…
What have we become?
Quote:I can’t help but wonder what his reaction would be if I told him that in the future, if he wanted to be a temple worker…he would have to shave.
Indeed, or if he wanted to attend his own namesake university.
I’m sorry, I didn’t have the stamina to read all the replies, but I think the intent of the question is obvious and what they mean it to mean is obvious. Originally the WoW was a law of health that taught moderation, but now it means abstinence and that’s what your bishop and stake president mean when they ask the question. I don’t consider it really honest to use one definition for the term for yourself, knowing full well your leader means something completely different. This is distinct from vaguer areas like what “sustain” means or what “tithing” means where the question is intentionally open to personal interpretation.
Personally I feel I keep the WoW because I try to moderate consumption of alcohol, coffee, soda, meat, I avoid energy drinks, I exercise, and I go to the doctor regularly and try to get adequate sleep.
I know this is not the definition the person holding the recommend book is using, though, so I have to answer “no”.
BobDixon wrote:Personally
I feel I keep the WoWbecause I try to moderate consumption of alcohol, coffee, soda, meat, I avoid energy drinks, I exercise, and I go to the doctor regularly and try to get adequate sleep. I know this is
not the definition the person holding the recommend bookis using, though, so I have to answer “no”.
i appreciate and respect your point of view.i have a simple question: to whom are you accountable for your relationship with the god of your understanding?
Quote:i appreciate and respect your point of view.
i have a simple question: to whom are you accountable for your relationship with the god of your understanding?
We’re ultimately accountable to God, but we’re also taught the principle of orderly submission to earthly authority, i.e. “render unto Caesar”, etc., as well as the basic principle of honesty. So I’m accountable to God alone for whether or not I follow the Wow, but also for whether I might give an intentionally evasive answer to the TR question.
BobDixon wrote:wayfarer wrote:
i appreciate and respect your point of view.i have a simple question: to whom are you accountable for your relationship with the god of your understanding?
We’re ultimately accountable to God, but we’re also taught the principle of orderly submission to earthly authority, i.e. “render unto Caesar”, etc., as well as the basic principle of honesty. So I’m accountable to God alone for whether or not I follow the WoW, but also for whether I might give an intentionally evasive answer to the TR question.
interesting metaphor. i don’t recall that the question was to submit to earthly church authority, but rather, whether payment to an occupying heathen power was acceptable for an orthodox, observant Jew.Seems to me that the Priesthood is the power to act in the name of the Lord, not in the name of the Church, nor in the name of any churchly authority.
if someone is faithfully acting in the name of the Lord as an interviewer, does the intent of that person, or even that person’s earthly organization matter?
to use another example, a person asks for a blessing from the priesthood. should the will of the priesthood holder figure into the blessing?
Since the question is a yes/no choice without elaboration, an either/or question remains: are we accountable to god or to man?
Quote:I’ve never given an intentionally evasive answer in any temple recommend interview in my life.
I’ve just answered the questions as honestly as I can, based on my understanding of what they mean to me. I’ve always answered, “Yes,” “No” or “I try / strive to do so.”
That’s not intentionally evasive; it’s directly honest.
Let me add something in all sincerity: If I die tomorrow and am asked by God himself the exact same questions that are asked currently in the temple recommend interview, I believe I would look him in the eye and answer exactly the same way I answer now.
If God looked at me and said, “What do you mean by that?” – and if I explained – and if God said, “That’s not what I meant by those questions” — I believe and hope I would grin
🙂 and say,Quote:“Then you should have made sure I knew that before now.”
I believe God would grin back at me and say,
Quote:“You answered according to the dictates of your conscience all your life. No harm; no foul.
:angel: Bruce in Montana wrote:I can’t help but remembering Joseph Smith’s admonition (paraphrasing)…. “If anything contradicts a former revelation, put it down as a lie”. Making a suggestion that is clearly meant to be “NOT a commandment” into a “commandment”….is a contradiction. Please straighten me out if I’m incorrect here.
I realize that this is a really, really old thread, but I just saw it for the first time. Could someone tell me where to find Joseph Smith’s statement — verbatim and not paraphrased? I have an enormous probably with the idea that a revelation that was given by the Lord as “a word of wisdom” and not as a “commandment” has become such a defining factor in who’s a “good temple-worthy Mormon” and who isn’t. I have a glass of wine at Thanksgiving and another a Christmas, and when I go for my temple recommend, I always say that I keep the Word of Wisdom. I’m probably just trying to justify my behavior when I say that I keep the spirit of the law, but I fail to see what I’m doing as all that bad. Anyway… I’d like to see the actual JS quote if anyone can direct me to it.Katzpur wrote:I realize that this is a really, really old thread, but I just saw it for the first time. Could someone tell me where to find Joseph Smith’s statement — verbatim and not paraphrased?
I did find this quote from
Harold B. Lee. Citation: The Place of the Living Prophet, Seer, and Revelator [address delivered to seminary and institute of religion faculty, 8 July 1964], p. 14. Harold B. Lee wrote:It is not to be thought that every word spoken by the General Authorities is inspired, or that they are moved upon by the Holy Ghost in everything they read and write. Now you keep that in mind. I don’t care what his position is, if he writes something or speaks something that goes beyond anything that you can find in the standard church works, unless that one be the prophet, seer, and revelator—please note that one exception—you may immediately say, ‘Well, that is his own idea.’ And if he says something that contradicts what is found in the standard church works (I think that is why we call them ‘standard’—it is the standard measure of all that men teach), you may know by that same token that it is false, regardless of the position of the man who says it.
HBL was
onlya member of the Q12 at the time he made that statement. I wonder if the standard works in 1964 would have backed him up. 
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.