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Yeah, wayfarer, there is the rest of the story that illustrates it’s all about masturbation. 
:shh: Sex, lies and genesis? lol ok I appreciate very much humor and the ability to laugh at ones self(cultural , religious beliefs and traditions). I think it is an important part of balancing life and seriousness. With regaurd to the story here is how I see it. I’m going to quote a off topic comment that will be tied with it from BY. Journal of discourses Volume 14:116 “God never made something out of nothing; it is not in the economy or law by which the worlds were, are, or will exist. There is an eternity before us, and it is full of matter; and if we but understand enough of the Lord and his ways, we would say that he took of this matter and organized this earth from it. How long it has been organized it is not for me to say, and I do not care anything about it. As for the Bible account of the creation we may say that the Lord gave it to Moses,
or rather Moses obtained the history and traditions of the fathers, and from these picked out what he considered necessary, and that account has been handed down from age to age, and we have got it, no matter whether it is correct or not,and whether the Lord found the earth empty and void, whether he made it out of nothing or out of the rude elements; or whether he made it in six days or in as many millions of years, is and will remain a matter of speculation in the minds of men unless he give revelation on the subject.” Obviously BY understood how the bible was formed to the point he says to the creation “no matter whether it is correct or not”. There are just certain stories hand down many, many generations before it was written down. So some don’t seem to make sense, “but we have it wheatear it is correct or not”.
That’s how I see it. Some things of importance to those at the time were passed down for what ever reason and maybe the point got lost sometimes in the process of the oral tradition of passing it down before it got written.
Back to chasity. In Exodus 22:16-17 we read that a man who lies with an unbetrothed virgin must pay the marriage present and marry her. In Deuteronomy 22: 28-29, we learn that a man who rapes an unbetrothed virgin must pay 50 shekels to her father and marry her. (A raped woman was considered unmarriageable: a forced marriage to her rapist was thought to be better than no marriage at all.) http://www.womenintheancientworld.com/women%20and%20the%20law%20in%20ancient%20israel.htm ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://www.womenintheancientworld.com/women%20and%20the%20law%20in%20ancient%20israel.htm As a few rabbi have told me before, in old testiment times if you had sex with a unmarried women you were considered married under Jewish law. Add that to the fact that it was the norm to get married shortly after puberty (12-14). You begin to understand why chasity is never once mentioned in the old testiment. Not once. That is why. You lie down with a women back then you were considered married under Jewish law, if she was betrothed it was considered adultery. What real opertunity was their to break a law that didn’t exist because of that back then? Especially being commonly married just after puberty and not 10-20 years after like what is common today.
Forgotten_Charity wrote:(from BY in JD: “…As for the Bible account of the creation we may say that the Lord gave it to Moses,
or rather Moses obtained the history and traditions of the fathers, and from these picked out what he considered necessary, and that account has been handed down from age to age, and we have got it, no matter whether it is correct or not,and whether the Lord found the earth empty and void, whether he made it out of nothing or out of the rude elements; or whether he made it in six days or in as many millions of years, is and will remain a matter of speculation in the minds of men unless he give revelation on the subject.”
great quote… really great. now…when we realize that moses didn’t write it either…Ya well, that is the breaks of history. Especially after it is already established then it becomes taboo to correct it. Look what happened when they tried to correct “Columbus day”. Anyway I support the law of chastity. But I can’t help but feel in the fences on top of the fences that we built over the years with tradition including on Top of the law of chastity really feels just like what the Pharisees(Rabi) where doing all the while Christ was critizing them for making too many fences and getting further from the doctrine(missing the mark). Yeah, if a man rapes a young girl, her reward is to have to live with him and continue to be raped – by modern standards. 😯 :wtf: That’s one of the reasons I don’t like to use the Bible (or any other ancient scripture, for that matter) to justify or inform how I view many things in my own day and age (including discussions of tithing in anothter thread).
Ya Old-Timer. Probably in my confusing post I meant to say that although sometimes its a paradox , I’m really grateful for modern(continued) revelation. There is a ton of stuff in the new and old testament that isn’t what I would call godly. Particularly in the chasity/adultry parts. A lot wasn’t sanctioned (introduced)by god it was just cultural. I’m grateful for “continued enlightenment”. I can’t imagine a socitey where we live by those rules. On the other hand looking at the past and knowing that they married soon after puberty. I believe in the chasity law and how it helps a world maintain a world less destructive emtionaly then a world of chaos where people just slept with whom and wherever they wanted. But one thing confuses me. What about those that get married very late? Or never get married at all even though they put forth there best effort to do so. Do we really expect a person to live thier entire life without err umm relief?
That would be just as destructive to that person in that situation.
One of the reasons I am not surprised by those that pledged thier life of celibacy as having a lot of problems. The body just doesn’t seem ment to be able to do it it’s entire life or even for long periods after puberty.
Quote:But one thing confuses me. What about those that get married very late? Or never get married at all even though they put forth there best effort to do so. Do we really expect a person to live thier entire life without err umm relief?
I’m a little older than most in the college scene and I’ve never been married. I’ve saved myself for marriage to this point because I’ve been hoping for a woman who has done the same and I guess I don’t know what I’ve been missing, which could possibly be a case for me continuing in that path. I’ve put forth as great an effort to find someone as any Mormon ever has, but some people are just created more attractive than others.
This issue is part of what initiated my crisis of faith. Why didn’t God create me to be as attractive as some other guys? Why is it that women don’t care about my particular set of gifts and talents (which are actually quite good: I’ve worked at NASA, among other things, and I consider myself to be reasonably good-looking), but instead chase bad boys on motorcycles? Why do women obsess over men who are tall, funny, dangerous, and charismatic, etc. and pass up men who are intelligent, creative and stable? The way that romantic attraction actually works (especially for women) is very different from the way that Church culture teaches that it works. Whatever it is that Mormon women want, I don’t have it, and no answer about why God made it that way makes sense to me at this point.
I struggle with this. Why does God create people to be unattractive (or gay, or have any other problem?) Who would choose to be unattractive in the pre-mortal life? Why would God create someone to be unattractive or gay, essentially giving them a choice between a life of celibacy and a life of sin? And what kind of God would punish someone for lack of pre-mortal valiance by making them unattractive?
If you would have asked me as a TBM if it was OK for someone who would probably never be married to grant themselves some leniency on the law of chastity, I would have said no. But now I see the value of considering it.
Hi IM. I don’t want derail this thread but I will respond. God most certainly does not create our looks. While he guided the creation of the human race our looks are exclusively genetics(DNA). Concinder it like the law of gravity. We claim that certain universal laws have always existed which god can not break. DNA is one. With regaurd to chasity, I wouldn’t encourage it, you might regret it later. I am 38 and made the mistake once when I was 24. Not being a RM because i was searching for the truth in various church’s at the time after going through hell. I started dating non LDS women because very few would even consider a non RM even when they thought I was a wonderful person(except for the “non RM thing”). I continued dating in and out of the church but never made that mistake again. At the age of 38 as luck would have it I meant my fiancé out of no where. She herself ironically being a active TBM return missionary. I was very up front about my previous mistake and non RM status. But oddly enough she just loved me for me and it felt weird to hear it. I wasn’t used to it. I am preparing myself for the temple( I’m very judgemental with myself). I just expect 10 times more from myself then I do from others. You never know when opportunity will come. It gives no clue before hand. But there are those that go their entire life without finding a marital partner through no fault of thier own. I could answer some other of your question here perhaps an another thread so I don’t derail this one. It’s easier for us to pass judgement on others when we haven’t gone through certain rare situations. More of my point. In my experience people can be very picky. I will just say this. I was engaged 3 times previously(they proposed to me) I was excited to finally have the opportunity to get married. But they started demanding things that changed me in very dramatic ways until I didn’t know who I was anymore. In short I had to come back to my senses and break off the engagement after my family and friends intervened because they were concerned. I truely hope someone excepts you for you.
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