TR Question Survey – Question 8: Keeping covenants

[Anonymous]

good points ray.

But again, for this discussion, perhaps it might be useful to talk about the non-temple covenants. Given that a ‘covenant’ is a two-way promise, what are the covenants members actually make in the church?

This is a two-way covenant we make each week: We promise three things, and the lord promises his Spirit:

Moroni 4:3 wrote:

…that they may witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father,

that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son,

and always remember him,

and keep his commandments which he hath given them,

…that they may always have his Spirit to be with them.

Or upon baptism, at least according to Alma at the waters of mormon:

Mosiah 18:8-9 wrote:

As ye are desirous to come into the fold of God, and to be called his people…(that’s the lord’s side)

and are willing to bear one another’s burdens, that they may be light;

Yea, and are willing to mourn with those who mourn;

yea, and comfort those that stand in need of comfort,

and to stand as witnesses of God at all times and in all things,

and in all places that ye may be in, even until death

…(and now god’s part:)

that ye may be redeemed of God,

and be numbered with those of the first resurrection,

that ye may have (present tense) eternal life —

…(and the wrap-up)

Now I say unto you, if this be the desire of your hearts,

what have you against being baptized in the name of the Lord,

as a witness before him that he have entered into a covenant with him,

that you will serve and keep his commandments,

that he may pour out his Spirit more abundantly upon you?

Although we frequently point out the commitment to obey commandments, the focus of the baptismal covenant in Mosiah seems more focused on the care we have one for another. And shouldn’t that be the case? What are the principle commandments of god (not the church, but of God)?

1. Love the lord thy god with all thy heart might mind and strength, and

2. Love thy neighbor as thyself.

Upon these two hang all the law and prophets.

So, to me, question 8 is entirely about whether we are living the higher laws and covenants of Jesus Christ.

If I were to break this question down, and I know the interviewer isn’t allowed to, I would simply ask:

1. Do you love yourself?

2. Do you love God? (1 and 2 are the same thing to me).

3. How are you demonstrating in your daily walk your love for your neighbor?

indeed, I would think that Edward P Kimball’s immortal words in the unsung words of “God loved us so he sent his son”:

Edward P. Kimball wrote:

In word and deed he doth require

My will to his, like son to sire,

Be made to bend, and I as son,

Learn conduct from the Holy One

This sacrament doth represent

His blood and body for me spent.

Partaking now is deed for word,

That I remember Him, my Lord.

For question 8, I think THESE are the relevant covenants.

[Anonymous]

Excellent point wayfarer – I was on the wrong set of covenants.

[Anonymous]

Well. Maybe I need to change my vote. I have no problems with the covenants described in the BOM….the book that contains the fullness of the Gospel.

Where I run into a problem is when the LDS church makes their own list of “pharasicial” shoulds and should not covanents.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

[Anonymous]

cwald wrote:

Well. Maybe I need to change my vote. I have no problems with the covenants described in the BOM….the book that contains the fullness of the Gospel.

you can change your vote now

[Anonymous]

These threads are so thought provoking.

Am I thinking of another question which specifically mentions wearing garments faithfully? If so, that’s why I answered as I did.

I absolutely love this question through the lens of the two great commandments!

[Anonymous]

mercyngrace wrote:

These threads are so thought provoking.

Am I thinking of another question which specifically mentions wearing garments faithfully? If so, that’s why I answered as I did.

I absolutely love this question through the lens of the two great commandments!

q12 is about the temple covenants and garments

[Anonymous]

wayfarer wrote:

cwald wrote:

Well. Maybe I need to change my vote. I have no problems with the covenants described in the BOM….the book that contains the fullness of the Gospel.

you can change your vote now

Done.

[Anonymous]

wayfarer wrote:

My answer: Yes, with emphasis on ‘Strive to’.

I wanted to share my experience with the bishop recently, in no way to make it sound like I don’t sustain him or anything negative towards him, but just because others may benefit from my experience.

I was asked this question, and I answered Yes. I added nothing further.

He did not proceed to the next question. He asked me again, and I confirmed it with the same answer.

He then told me that part of my covenants were to attend regularly, and that I need to be partaking of the sacrament weekly to renew my covenants. He pointed out he has seen me missing meetings for several weeks in a row, at one point, although he knew I was traveling on work, I was not in church for 6 weeks straight.

(I kept my words to myself as I reflected on how nice those 6 weeks were 😈 )

So he asked me how I feel I’m keeping my covenants if I’m missing from High Priests group more often than attending.

I just said, “I’m striving to.” I didn’t say anything more out loud, but in my heart I thought to myself…I’m grateful for the Atonement because I’m not perfect at it…but I’m OK answering Yes to this question. I have a lot going on in my life, and the Lord knows my heart.

He didn’t like my answer, but he moved on.

I believe the bishop had discernment to know I was trying, and he allowed me to pass the interview. I felt good about it, I felt honest. And I felt like the important part of the interview was to have me evaluate my answers, and he was keeping me honest. But the question isn’t asked “Are you keeping all the commandments” but “are you striving to”. And I was honest with him, and he was not there to try to keep from getting the recommend, just to make sure I was honestly answering it.

I don’t think he approved of my beliefs, but he allowed me to have them and keep my recommend.

That was my experience on this question.

[Anonymous]

Heber13 wrote:

So he asked me how I feel I’m keeping my covenants if I’m missing from High Priests group more often than attending.

I just said, “I’m striving to.” I didn’t say anything more out loud, but in my heart I thought to myself…I’m grateful for the Atonement because I’m not perfect at it…but I’m OK answering Yes to this question. I have a lot going on in my life, and the Lord knows my heart.

He didn’t like my answer, but he moved on.

I believe the bishop had discernment to know I was trying, and he allowed me to pass the interview. I felt good about it, I felt honest. And I felt like the important part of the interview was to have me evaluate my answers, and he was keeping me honest. But the question isn’t asked “Are you keeping all the commandments” but “are you striving to”. And I was honest with him, and he was not there to try to keep from getting the recommend, just to make sure I was honestly answering it.

I don’t think he approved of my beliefs, but he allowed me to have them and keep my recommend.

I’m glad the outcome was positive. I’m honestly concerned about the notion that the bishop is evaluating how someone who travels for work, as apparently we both do, not attending, is queried on how he is attending to his duties when he’s not going to church. I’m not sure that ‘discernment’ is alive and well here.

[Anonymous]

I love that conversation between the two of you, even as I don’t like it in theory for many other members.

I hope it was discernment and understanding and not just the standard operating procedure for him. I don’t know, so I’ll accept your view, since you were there.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

He didn’t like my answer, but he moved on.

I’ve been told (I can’t remember if it was a member of the stake presidency or a bishop) that he was instructed to give a temple recommend if the member answers affirmatively to each of the questions even if they personally feel that the member is lying.

[Anonymous]

bc_pg wrote:

Quote:

He didn’t like my answer, but he moved on.

I’ve been told (I can’t remember if it was a member of the stake presidency or a bishop) that he was instructed to give a temple recommend if the member answers affirmatively to each of the questions even if they personally feel that the member is lying.

now that’s an interesting perspective.

[Anonymous]

bc_pg wrote:

Quote:

He didn’t like my answer, but he moved on.

I’ve been told (I can’t remember if it was a member of the stake presidency or a bishop) that he was instructed to give a temple recommend if the member answers affirmatively to each of the questions even if they personally feel that the member is lying.

The bishop is a judge in Israel, and they are told to discern.

If the person is lying, and the bishop is aware of positive proof, they may not pass the person. I don’t think that happens very often, but bishops are not told they “can’t” withhold the recommend. It is their job to judge the person. They are called with power and authority to do so, and if they abuse that, amen to their priesthood…but good luck fighting it.

[Anonymous]

wayfarer wrote:

I’m glad the outcome was positive. I’m honestly concerned about the notion that the bishop is evaluating how someone who travels for work, as apparently we both do, not attending, is queried on how he is attending to his duties when he’s not going to church. I’m not sure that ‘discernment’ is alive and well here.

Well, to be fair, I skip sometimes. I usually don’t more than one week in a row, unless I’m traveling…but I can’t honestly say I’m only skipping because I’m traveling. 😳

What I didn’t want to get into with him was why sometimes I feel I need to skip. I simply wanted to keep it to the interview, and say I strive to go, and when I don’t, I have my reasons.

Here is another piece of the story…I did attend the temple with my recommend, and I had a beautiful experience with some feelings I believe are from God.

I believe God is OK with how I answered the question too, or I don’t think I’d have had that temple experience. That is my greatest litmus test.

[Author]

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