Training for Leaders on Faith Crisis

[Anonymous]

brit-exmo wrote:

Just chipping in to say I really like this post and it crystalises something I have been thinking about for a while

I think those of us who have either left and come back, or just stayed throughout our faith crisis, are a huge untapped resource to help the leadership with the increasing numbers of others who are having questions. Here in the UK I am hearing of more and more people being called into the bishops office, or going themselves to discuss issues around church history / doctrine, and 9 times out of 10 the bishop (and stake president, and home teacher, even area authority) make a complete pigs ear of the situation and just make things worse.

There has been a lot of discussion on our UK Doubting LDS facebook group, and I think there is a genuine desire amongst the disaffected to help the church out, its just a matter of how do we do that, and who do we speak to?

I have one or two ‘friends’ who are in positions of leadership in the UK LDS Church, so I am going to float the idea, but don’t want to push too hard, as the cynic in me thinks because of the belief in the preisthood, and ‘being the one true church’ anything percived as ‘external advice’ is treated with suspicion.

Fellow-Brit radar… bip bip bip

What’s the group? Is it by invitation only? I’m guessing it’s probably quite private. Or maybe it’s a public group.

So are you still an exmo or have you gone back to church?

[Anonymous]

Will PM you

[Anonymous]

brit-exmo wrote:

Just chipping in to say I really like this post and it crystalises something I have been thinking about for a while

I think those of us who have either left and come back, or just stayed throughout our faith crisis, are a huge untapped resource to help the leadership with the increasing numbers of others who are having questions. Here in the UK I am hearing of more and more people being called into the bishops office, or going themselves to discuss issues around church history / doctrine, and 9 times out of 10 the bishop (and stake president, and home teacher, even area authority) make a complete pigs ear of the situation and just make things worse.

There has been a lot of discussion on our UK Doubting LDS facebook group, and I think there is a genuine desire amongst the disaffected to help the church out, its just a matter of how do we do that, and who do we speak to?

I have one or two ‘friends’ who are in positions of leadership in the UK LDS Church, so I am going to float the idea, but don’t want to push too hard, as the cynic in me thinks because of the belief in the preisthood, and ‘being the one true church’ anything percived as ‘external advice’ is treated with suspicion.

I am hoping this week in the podcast I do to have an episode of training for leaders.

[Anonymous]

DB…have you watched John dehlins presentation, “why people leave.”?

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[Anonymous]

cwald wrote:

DB…have you watched John dehlins presentation, “why people leave.”?

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Yes and I loved it. I only wish in the whole thing there was a comment made that in part one reason to hang in there may be that you come to regain a testimony and believe again. That seems to be a thought that gets no air time.

[Anonymous]

DBMormon wrote:

Yes and I loved it. I only wish in the whole thing there was a comment made that in part one reason to hang in there may be that you come to regain a testimony and believe again. That seems to be a thought that gets no air time.

I would also like to see a similar message, but I think it needs to be very carefully worded. From my experience most people in the middle of a serious crisis have no grasp of “regain a testimony and believe again.” I think it would be more helpful to speak in terms of “find new value in the church…” in hopes of holding their attention for another minute or two instead of being immediately tuned out.

[Anonymous]

Yeah.

I would be careful of the terms testimony and believe.

I would be defensive.

I like the suggestion of “finding value.”

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[Anonymous]

Orson wrote:

DBMormon wrote:

Yes and I loved it. I only wish in the whole thing there was a comment made that in part one reason to hang in there may be that you come to regain a testimony and believe again. That seems to be a thought that gets no air time.

I would also like to see a similar message, but I think it needs to be very carefully worded. From my experience most people in the middle of a serious crisis have no grasp of “regain a testimony and believe again.” I think it would be more helpful to speak in terms of “find new value in the church…” in hopes of holding their attention for another minute or two instead of being immediately tuned out.

+1 :thumbup:

[Anonymous]

cwald wrote:

Yeah.

I would be careful of the terms testimony and believe.

I would be defensive.

I like the suggestion of “finding value.”

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But then does it become too easy to stay firm in the church isn’t true and simply look for value in it that never correlates with truth…. just asking

but I am glad we are all thinking on the same page

[Anonymous]

DBMormon wrote:

cwald wrote:

Yeah.

I would be careful of the terms testimony and believe.

I would be defensive.

I like the suggestion of “finding value.”

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

But then does it become too easy to stay firm in the church isn’t true and simply look for value in it that never correlates with truth…. just asking

but I am glad we are all thinking on the same page

What? Why do I have to “believe it is true?”

Maybe I don’t understand your mission.

Bill. I don’t know if it is “true” and to be frank, I don’t care.

If the church can’t accept that position…if I can just find some value in the church…why is that not good enough for leadership?

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[Anonymous]

Aside: “I wonder when Mormons starting saying ‘I know this church is true’?”

I think when people start going through a faith transition, they begin to examine their beliefs in new ways. For example, what exactly does it mean the the church is true? I don’t know that people in crisis or transition see the vocabulary in the same way–and like Orson suggested, might even be put off by it.

[Anonymous]

For me, at this time (about six months into my disillusionment/adjustment/crisis), the less said about Joseph Smith, the better. I know a lot of people here will think I’m a wimp, but I just don’t want to think about him right now. I’m trying to feel close to God in my meetings, in my home, as I serve, in the temple. Elaine Dalton’s recent talk included a line about how pure Joseph was. That had me on edge as much as her other statement.

[Anonymous]

After a major faith crisis as we discuss here, I don’t think 99.5 percent could ever go back to their old believes. JS will never be the same. We may accept him as inspired or even a prophet but to put him as important second to Jesus to our salvation is a real stretch anymore. I think finding value and some inspiration will have to do for most of us that have had a faith crisis.

[Anonymous]

DBMormon wrote:

cwald wrote:

DB…have you watched John dehlins presentation, “why people leave.”?

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

Yes and I loved it. I only wish in the whole thing there was a comment made that in part one reason to hang in there may be that you come to regain a testimony and believe again. That seems to be a thought that gets no air time.

I agree that it’s important to remind each other that it’s possible to find a way to stay and be happy doing it. My hope is to work through all these issues and still “believe again” and have a “testimony of” the divine calling of Joseph Smith (even if I reach a new understanding of what that calling was), the divine origins of the Book of Mormon and the Temple (even if I reach a new understanding of their origins).

I greatly appreciate your continued contribution to the board in sharing the story of overcoming the uncertainties you faced. I don’t know whether I’ll ever be able to ‘go back’ to where I was 12 months ago, but I hope that whatever I ‘go forward’ to in another 12 months will be a deeper, but different, conviction that this church remains one with which the Lord is “well pleased.” Even if it’s one among many. If I can do that, I would consider it positive progress – especially as 4-5 months ago I was considering the option of abandoning all attempts to have any meaningful interaction with any concept of deity. Or even if there was one there to have interaction with.

On the other hand, I can still see a scenario where I reach a conclusion that in order to have that meaningful interaction with God I will be better placed in a non-LDS context. I hope not, but I can see how I could get to that.

[Anonymous]

DBMormon wrote:

cwald wrote:

Yeah.

I would be careful of the terms testimony and believe.

I would be defensive.

I like the suggestion of “finding value.”

But then does it become too easy to stay firm in the church isn’t true and simply look for value in it that never correlates with truth…. just asking but I am glad we are all thinking on the same page

The difficulty here is dealing with everyone’s different interpretation of “truth.” This difficulty is compounded by the disaffected’s shattered definition of “truth” in context of the church.

Example: My prior definition of “truth” as it applied to the church included elements such as “a prophet of the true church cannot/will not speak from the pulpit any shade of falsehood” for such would allow the people to be led astray, and God will not allow members of his true church to be led astray. The issue is not whether my definitions are in fact right or wrong, the problem is that my definitions will not allow me to believe “the church is true” once I learn that an older prophet did in fact teach something that a newer prophet declared to be false.

Changing our personal definitions is another complex topic, one that we spend much time addressing here, but to successfully navigate around the obstacle I think it is helpful to let that difficulty lie. When the word “truth” is a significant personal obstacle, I think it is best to try to move beyond it to other helpful topics and not become stagnant in one narrow argument.

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