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I just read this and wondered what you good folks think. http://www.newsweek.com/id/212155 I tend to agree…and I think many here might as well, but like the article says, it is vastly different than the orthodox view of traditional Christianity — and of course Mormonism — than what I grew up with.
Your thoughts? Does anybody believe in “reincarnation” in the Hindu sense? Or any other sense?
Very interesting article. Thanks for that, Rix! I want really badly to believe in reincarnation, because more lives here on earth just sounds way funner than the CK (did I just say that out loud?
😳 )btw, my sorta-TBM DW has taken up yoga and absolutely loves it! In fact, she’d miss SM to go if she had too.
😆 😆 I don’t think she sees it as religious or spiritual, just extremely helpful to re-gain sanity after a long day at work, home, kids, etc. Viva yoga!!!
Rix wrote:Does anybody believe in “reincarnation” in the Hindu sense? Or any other sense?
I’ve always figured that the doctrine of resurrection was a more beautiful way to explain the concept of reincarnation that has arisen in other cultures. Having parts of my path that have passed through Buddhist and Hindu studies, I feel those studies strengthen my testimony of resurrection.
Rix wrote:I just read this and wondered what you good folks think.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/212155 I tend to agree…and I think many here might as well, but like the article says, it is vastly different than the orthodox view of traditional Christianity — and of course Mormonism — than what I grew up with.
Your thoughts? Does anybody believe in “reincarnation” in the Hindu sense? Or any other sense?
I love the Pew people. Awesome research and their panel discussion with Richard Bushman a couple years ago was really fun.I hesitate to comment on reincarnation/resurrection. In the Hindu sense, one continues reincarnating until one learns all the lessons needed, and then they break the cycle and no longer return to mortal life. They do this as essentially the same ‘person’, though of course what they learn spiritually progresses them going into their next incarnation. As I understand it.
Jewish reincarnation is different. There are three different senses in which reincarnation takes place, or that are involved in the concept, anyway. I can’t remember one but the other two are gilgul and tikkun. The point of these is to attain perfection or ‘wholeness’ in to the original Adam, and it differs from Hindu (or, I should say *some* Hindu beliefs– there are many ‘flavors’ of Hindu belief in details of reincarnation) in that the ‘self’ changes, gathers intelligence with each round and thus the next incarnation is not the same person, but an enhanced and changed ‘self’ differing from the earlier ‘version’.
And you can google for more, if you’re interested. It’s a very complicated thing. And not all that different from what some early Church leaders taught concerning Multiple Mortal Probations (MMP).
I believe it may be so. I have no compelling evidence either way.
HiJolly
swimordie wrote:…btw, my sorta-TBM DW has taken up yoga and absolutely loves it! In fact, she’d miss SM to go if she had too.
😆 😆 I don’t think she sees it as religious or spiritual, just extremely helpful to re-gain sanity after a long day at work, home, kids, etc. Viva yoga!!!
Thanks (all) for the comments. This article, and many others I’ve read recently, have sparked me to think about a new way to describe spirituality. In the article it said that more and more people today are labeling themselves as
“spiritual, but not religious.”Years ago, I would have tilted my head and said “doh!” I thought it was the same thing! I don’t today. But before I de-rail my own thread, I will say that I consider yoga quite spiritual. I am also into massage, meditation, breath work, and other techniques that create an internal environment that seems to tune one’s spirit with deity. My first experience with this was while I was on my mish to Japan…there were many rituals that I participated in where I felt very “spiritual,” and they had nothing to do with “church.”
I’m curious about other’s thoughts on the subject. Thanks!
HiJolly wrote:I believe it may be so. I have no compelling evidence either way.
HiJolly
Nor do I…but it’s interesting to me to see that there are many church members that are open to the possibility. I am happy to see that.
My own thoughts (and I DEFINITELY could be wrong!!!) are that the interest we have in the next life is natural, but so nebulous to understand that I don’t give it much energy. I know that is probably bizarre to many, but it seems that if we spend so much time worrying about what we may not really be able to “know,” that we forget the “heaven” that is right before our eyes today!
Quote:Rix said…Your thoughts? Does anybody believe in “reincarnation” in the Hindu sense? Or any other sense?
About 25 years ago I met a guy who was LDS, about like all of us on these threads are LDS. If you can imagine that one paint me a verbal discription. He was able, somehow, in his own mind to reconcile mormonism and reincarnation. By the time he dropped me off he was still in the explaining stage. I had to assume that for him he was content with his reconciliation. And like I told a Jehovah Witness one time, if I think their interpretation of God and the scriptures are different, from their point of view mormonism is just as different.
I think the “standard Sunday School” Mormon description of life and its stages is SO far beyond the Divinity School discussions of life in which I participated that they aren’t in the same universe. Since I think even our simplest view of eternal existence is MUCH closer to “reincarnation” than the rest of Christianity, I am totally comfortable pondering the possibilities – but I also accept and believe that this life is the most important stage of eternity (as is EVERY stage while I am in it, no matter what that stage is). I believe that the present always is more important than the future – and I believe that same concept is embedded in “pure” reincarnation. I do NOT believe it is imbedded in most of the rest of Christianity, and I think that is one of the worst aspects of the Great Apostacy.
Old-Timer wrote:but I also accept and believe that this life is the most important stage of eternity (as is EVERY stage while I am in it, no matter what that stage is).
Beautiful, Ray!!!
Old-Timer wrote:
I believe that the present always is more important than the future – and I believe that same concept is embedded in “pure” reincarnation. I do NOT believe it is imbedded in most of the rest of Christianity,…Very well said! However, I’ve found that like here at “StayLDS,” other Christian denominations have their segments that are quite progressive and are helping evolve their faith to more a more “present” mindset.
I have often pondered the idea that while those that are “damned” to progress to the celestial kingdom sounds so unloving for a Father to do to His children, what if they were allowed to return to earth until they get it right, which would be the reincarnation concept that could be reconciled with mormon doctrine of eternal salvation. My problem I’ve never been able to get past is that
1) One purpose of mortality is to gain a body … once we have that, we don’t need to return to earth again. I don’t see how multiple births would be needed.
2) Our spirits have predisposition to behave as we do… and in the next life will have the same predispositions. Trying over and over again would be insanity…expecting different results without changing anything.
I believe the Atonement will cover any mistakes or wrong choices while in mortality, but God will ultimately judge us according to our hearts and our spiritual disposition, knowing exactly how we would act if we were given another try…so no need for it.
On the other subject…Great Quote! One of my favs because I think there is one universal truth…people just understand it differently, describe it differently, and speak of it by many names.
Rix wrote:HiJolly wrote:I believe it may be so. I have no compelling evidence either way.
HiJolly
My own thoughts (and I DEFINITELY could be wrong!!!) are that the interest we have in the next life is natural, but so nebulous to understand that I don’t give it much energy. I know that is probably bizarre to many, but it seems that if we spend so much time worrying about what we may not really be able to “know,” that we forget the “heaven” that is right before our eyes today!
This is how I feel. I generally have very little to say about various eschatological theories. The fact is, I don’t know, and don’t really feel like I can know. Until we discover a way for people to die, bring them back, and have them retain their consciousness (without the brain, which seems quite unlikely), I don’t think we’ll have a real clear picture on it. While I do get concerned about it when someone close to me passes, I usually just feel like I’m chasing my tail in circles when trying to make sense of it.I would much rather focus on the “heaven” in front of my face as you said.
Heber13 wrote:2) Our spirits have predisposition to behave as we do… and in the next life will have the same predispositions. Trying over and over again would be insanity…expecting different results without changing anything.
Doesn’t this completely ignore genetics, and evolution? I don’t really see how it would be insanity. I guess it is not clear to me how to pull apart ” spirit,” genetics, evolution, and environment. Psychologists try, but even they know it’s a lot of guesswork. What makes us think we have it figured out in Mormonism?jmb275 wrote:I generally have very little to say about various eschatological theories. The fact is, I don’t know, and don’t really feel like I can know. Until we discover a way for people to die, bring them back, and have them retain their consciousness (without the brain, which seems quite unlikely), I don’t think we’ll have a real clear picture on it.
jmb, I realize that everybody has their own cup of tea their own way, but statements like this make me wonder if people are really up on the latest data. I read the other day a philosophical article from about 1925 that I can’t put my finger on at the moment, and if I understood correctly, the general gist was about what you said above. Essentially, “we don’t know anything, there’s no data. Very few people claim to have seen the Master of the Universe. It’s not testable. It’s not study-able.”
I am a humanist. I agree with the spiritual idea that eschatological pretzels are yucky. I agree that now is the day and the time of our salvation. But I am also a scientist. And when there is data, I believe it shouldn’t be ignored.
This is the 21st century. Things are changing. Old paradigms don’t always hold true any more. There may be more evidence than you think. At the same time, you can’t put old wine into new bottles. Looking at new evidence with old paradigms doesn’t work. The paradigms have to change. What is God? What am I? Who are you? The old theological and philosophical constants such as “omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent” may no longer work. Seek and we shall find. Ask and we shall receive. Knock and it shall be opened unto us.
I read that article, too, and I thought it was really interesting the parallels it drew to Hinduism in a lot of the “spiritual” leanings in the U.S. I do find reincarnation conceptually appealing (the Mormon version is multiple mortal probations, also interesting). And many of the Hindu spiritual ideals resonate for me. Of course, what’s interesting is that many Hindus do not believe in the theology (many deities), but they like the lifestyle and the vague spirituality that comes with it. To me, what that means is that Americans are becoming more spiritual and less religious. The transition might have been worse had the U.S. gone from religious to secular like Europe. I think vague spirituality adds a nice flavor to any religion. Reincarnation is appealing because it’s about who we are becoming. Are we improving our station in life or not? Are we becoming more and more enlightened or should we be ready to drop a few levels on the food chain in the next life? To me, that’s a notion of accountability and growth.
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