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Hello to all! I have been a silent observer since 2013. I discovered StayLDS when I was going through the beginning stages of my faith crisis and was trying to find a community of like-minded individuals that weren’t super anti (
😆 ) on the internet in hopes to receive some clarity regarding my questions/concerns. Thanks to all for your insights and sharing your personal stories – feels good to not feel alone!Some history –
Grew up in the Northeast – home life wasn’t that great. Parents were constantly fighting and there wasn’t much love… When I was introduced to the church, I didn’t accept the missionary lessons at first. Overtime that changed. I was baptized at the age of 12 in July of 2000. My activity had its ups and downs. Some of the members had a hard time accepting my family. I became inactive too many times to count, after graduating college, I decided to give mormonism another shot. Gave up drinking, stopped dating, and eventually became endowed a few years later. To date, the only active members in my family are myself and my mother.
In 2014, I had been living in Utah for 3 years and decided I couldn’t take it anymore and will be moving to the east coast. Between 2013-2014, I was struggling a lot with my faith and had a lot of questions. Despite all this, I was still following all of the WoW, had callings, faithfully paid my tithing, and visited the temple often.
Part of it was my culture (east coast/caribbean/latina/ambitious/not a “molly” mormon) never mixing well with mormon culture. I went to a YSA ward and hated it! I met a few good folks there, but the grand majority lived in a bubble and lived a very self righteous and judgmental life and it was disgusting to me. And the fact you can never make friends because everyone thinks you want them or are competing for someone!?! Just bizarre! Glad that chapter in my life is closed! I even tried other wards and felt the exact same way. After a while I just gave up and went to a family ward (sacrament only).
Right before I moved back east, I was really struggling with temple attendance. I would go at least once a week, sometimes twice a week, but that waned over time and I eventually decided not to wear my garments between 2014-2016. I remember in 2011 when I first put on my garments how uncomfortable I felt. They fit horribly and are too thick for most of my clothes. I literally almost had a panic attack and was close to tears. I ended up getting some that were a better fit, but I still don’t fit in them properly. I felt horrible for feeling that way and eventually I just ignored how I felt. Luckily, I had a very caring and understanding Bishop at my first YSA ward in UT who heard my concerns and tried to help me out, but I continued to feel that way. These days, I usually wear them during the day for work, but then once I am home – I wear them occasionally to bed. If I don’t feel like wearing them, I won’t and won’t cry over it if I didn’t. Why? Because I was living my life just as I would if I had them on lol. I think people put way more importance into the wearing of the garments and not necessarily what it represents and want to be the G-Police. I don’t have time for that and right now that is what works for me and I am content with it.
My other main issue is the WoW. Without getting too much into the history, I just don’t think it is anything more than basic guidelines and it is way too open to interpretation. With that being said, I have been having a hard time NOT drinking because of that belief. I really don’t think there is anything wrong with drinking an occasional 1-2 glasses of wine with your dinner or having a glass of champagne when celebrating something with friends/co workers. Yet if I drink and admit to it during my TR interview, thats a violation and my TR may not be renewed. These days I have been asking myself “Do I go back to my social drinking and miss out on going to the temple and not having callings?” idk idk…
The history of the church always bugged me too – I knew it was flawed from the second the missionaries taught me the lessons at age 12. I have read the CES Letter and other things, and it just confirmed what I already thought lol. However, what attracted me to the church wasn’t the history – it was the peace I feel when I attended sacrament meetings and how they teach us about God and Jesus Christ. I honestly feel like I have a deeper relationship with God and Jesus Christ because of how it was taught to me at church. I’ve been to other churches, and it isn’t the same (again IMO). I have considered going to other churches, but idk….
I have way more to say but I will end there.
Anyways – I joined so I can be part of a group that will help me not feel or sound crazy when I talk about these topics. Some think I am too bold for saying or thinking these things, but I beg to differ lol What I am aiming for is a happy medium between mormonism and me, but I am not sure how I will ever achieve that…I like some aspects of mormonism less the WoW, less the garments, less Relief Society, more the temple, and more of Sunday School (only when it’s a philosophical conversation and not following the manuals
😆 Thanks for reading!
Welcome. Many of us here can relate to the thoughts you’ve expressed. I think there is a way to find that “happy medium” but it’s not always happy. The surprising thing to me about your version of your own way includes the temple – the temple is a big one for many, especially considering your other concerns. The best thing about this place is that people here understand, will listen, and will relate their own experiences. May you find the peace you seek.
Welcome. You are normal and don’t sound sinful at all. Thanks for sharing your story..would love to hear more as you participate on topics here and share your thoughts. I look forward to learning from your posts!!
PS–I grew up in the NorthEast myself…NJ. Love that area.
Hello Heber13! Thanks for the welcome.
Yea my family is from Washington Heights and the Bronx love it here but it is getting old lol
LookingHarder– thank you for your warm welcome! DarkJedi– Thanks for your welcome! I always love reading your posts/responses Yea the temple — despite everything I have learned (much of which has me like
😯 ), I enjoy the meditative aspect of it. That appeals to me a lot (my introverted self loves the super quiet space and the ability to escape most humans for a few hours). When I was inactive, I really missed going because I couldn’t find another space that matched that peace (minus this non touristy beach in my country but that’s besides the point). I am kind of in denial about everything else I have learned that is associated to the temple … like logically I know the facts and those facts are crazy to me, but I am still emotionally involved … it’s complicated… not sure how to explain itWelcome to the group. Thank you for sharing your experience. I’m also introvert myself. Because of that my mission was a difficult but rewarding experience. I’m closest to my parents and I have a few close friends in my small Illinois hometown. My religious beliefs run somewhere between traditional and not traditional. You mentioned you stopped dating. I was always taught being a single member of the church you could date, although the church prefers it being with other members. What do you mean by that? Hi Ilovechrist77! Thanks for sharing a little bit about yourself! To answer your question – The church has zero to do with my dating life lol I know I can be single and date but I simply chose to stop dating at that time. My dating life has never really been my central focus (I’m more focused on my career/education/getting to know myself better), but when I do put time into it, I never really enjoy it lol
For example, growing up in CT there weren’t that many members. I didn’t mind dating non members (that is my preference), but I have found that they can be straight up disrespectful especially when it comes to my decision to be celibate, or they drink TOO much, or we weren’t a good match for each other. I personally haven’t found any members that I would date lol it’s not on purpose just the attraction isn’t really there. It seems like my personality isn’t a win for them, but ehhh why would I be with someone who isn’t comfortable with my personality (member or non member)?
In UT I was turned off by how much dating everyone did! lol I prefer to be extremely selective and to get to know a person very well over an extended period of time and the type of men I date are the same way (for the most part)– seemed like people were trading dates left and right in UT – it was very strange lol
These days I’m not really dating (on purpose). My patriarchal blessing talks about my future spouse and how he is a member, but here we are lol haven’t had much luck there but I’m not losing sleep over it – it’s cool
Anyways – hope that clarified some things
Welcome! It is good to read your introduction and I am looking forward to getting to know you better. I have little time right now, but I just want to point out something that has been mentioned already – and add my own twist:
I understand the issues everyone expresses here, but I also love the temple. The sexist elements bug me, but the overall theology of the temple (what I see it as) is my favorite part of Mormonism. Literally, you can’t start the symbolic life journey there and not end up entering the Celestial Kingdom / presence of God – as long as you keep going. You can sleep – or construct poetry or songs in your head – or meditate – or think of something that needs deep consideration – or look around the room and imagine what everyone might be thinking – or write a talk in your head (even an unorthodox, heretical one) – or anything else – and you even can forget every word you are supposed to say and everything you are supposed to do. There always is someone to help you get to the end of the journey, no matter what.
There is a deep, powerful message in that for me, and it overrides the issues that still exist for me.
Welcome to the forum Molly! I’m also brand new here and looking forward to getting to know you and everyone else. One thought of mine on the WoW – something I’m sure has been stated elsewhere. But clearly when the WoW came out it was a guideline and not binding upon the saints – also I’ve always seen it as the spirit of moderation in all things. The WoW itself seems to include hard drinks (liquor?) more than softer drinks (beer or wine?). I’m no history expert, but I believe most of the saints included drinking alcohol (hopefully in moderation) after the revelation. JS ordered wine to help revive their spirits in Carthage. Brigham Young continued to drink. It wasn’t until much later that strict prohibition became a temple recommend requirement. But was that truly revelation of God’s will or just a policy change? I’ll leave that up to you decide.
My thought is that if you can honestly say to yourself that you follow the spirit of the word of wisdom as you understand it, and if you truly feel that temple attendance blesses your life, then you should answer the recommend questions accordingly. They are yes/no questions on purpose, because essentially WE get to decide if we are “worthy” or not, and not some arbitrary “judge.” So my advice – stay true yourself and do what you think and feel is right. Follow your own moral compass and if that includes continuing to attend the temple, that will only bless you in your life.
If I didn’t have a TBM wife so opposed to any and all alcohol I’m sure I would be toasting champagne at our anniversaries. Since I’ve never had any, I don’t really miss it but I also don’t think God could care less about whether or not we drink. (Jesus drank wine afterall, so clearly alcohol itself is not the sin). To me, the principle is maintaining our agency and health and also moderation.
Round here one doesn’t have two glasses of wine with your meal. You either drink or don’t drink. If you say you’re going out for a couple of drinks it often involves having drink after drink foisted on you until you can barely walk. Especially if you’re a man. DoubtingTom wrote:
Welcome to the forum Molly! I’m also brand new here and looking forward to getting to know you and everyone else.One thought of mine on the WoW – something I’m sure has been stated elsewhere. But clearly when the WoW came out it was a guideline and not binding upon the saints – also I’ve always seen it as the spirit of moderation in all things. The WoW itself seems to include hard drinks (liquor?) more than softer drinks (beer or wine?). I’m no history expert, but I believe most of the saints included drinking alcohol (hopefully in moderation) after the revelation. JS ordered wine to help revive their spirits in Carthage. Brigham Young continued to drink. It wasn’t until much later that strict prohibition became a temple recommend requirement. But was that truly revelation of God’s will or just a policy change? I’ll leave that up to you decide.
My thought is that if you can honestly say to yourself that you follow the spirit of the word of wisdom as you understand it, and if you truly feel that temple attendance blesses your life, then you should answer the recommend questions accordingly. They are yes/no questions on purpose, because essentially WE get to decide if we are “worthy” or not, and not some arbitrary “judge.” So my advice – stay true yourself and do what you think and feel is right. Follow your own moral compass and if that includes continuing to attend the temple, that will only bless you in your life.
If I didn’t have a TBM wife so opposed to any and all alcohol I’m sure I would be toasting champagne at our anniversaries. Since I’ve never had any, I don’t really miss it but I also don’t think God could care less about whether or not we drink. (Jesus drank wine afterall, so clearly alcohol itself is not the sin). To me, the principle is maintaining our agency and health and also moderation.
Thanks for your insight! I am doing my best to stay true to myself – it’s not always easy but I am trying!
And I agree with your last statement – I actually wrote about that in my journal the other day, especially the part about “the principle is maintaining our agency and health and also moderation” I honestly think that’s what it boils down to at the end of the day
SamBee wrote:
Round here one doesn’t have two glasses of wine with your meal. You either drink or don’t drink. If you say you’re going out for a couple of drinks it often involves having drink after drink foisted on you until you can barely walk. Especially if you’re a man.
Yikes! Personally, my motive is not to get trashed lol. I also love to use the word
noand know my limits. 99.9% of my family/friends drink. I associate myself with the ones that have a 1-2 drinks max. I like being around them because they are acting like normal human beings and aren’t drunk lol. I went out with a group of them a month ago – I was the only sober one but I had a blast with them (no one had to be carried home yay!). I avoid the ones that drink too much like the plague – not my type of vibe
I did notice during my college years that some guys did drink A LOT – it’s like a competition of who can out drink who
:wtf: some girls would drink a lot, but the guys were next level…The ones who drink too much would be most of the people in this country. The only way I can deal with it is by not drinking and having a cast iron rule about it… I can’t tell you how many times I went out not intending to be trashed but ending up that way. It doesn’t help that I have very low tolerance to it either. Three without food or four with food and I’m away with the fairies. Even now I get people asking why I don’t take up drinking again or saying “never trust a man who doesn’t drink” to me. One of my best ways round it is just to say I’m driving. But it does make me useful sometimes. Also if things get rough I can make my excuses and leave.
Hi, NYMM – I’m glad you’re here. These are the hard, practical questions. How to redraw boundaries between us and the church without drawing ourselves out of the church. I’m very comfortable with the way I wear garments now (not a lot), and still attending the temple. I don’t have any experience or desire to drink, so I don’t have any real advice for you. I like this quote from SD’s signature line:
Quote:The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.”
Editing to add: I think the church has a pretty significant problem on its hands because, just looking at this thread, and thousands of others like it, you would almost think that being a Mormon is about what we wear and drink, and not about what we do.
That’s snarky, but, as much as the church might want to deny it, I think that’s where we are now.
NotYourMollyMormon wrote:I really don’t think there is anything wrong with drinking an occasional 1-2 glasses of wine with your dinner or having a glass of champagne when celebrating something with friends/co workers. Yet if I drink and admit to it during my TR interview, thats a violation and my TR may not be renewed. These days I have been asking myself “Do I go back to my social drinking and miss out on going to the temple and not having callings?” idk idk…
What do you think “keeping the word of wisdom” means? Do you think you have to confess to a bishop for every sip of prohibited liquid you take?I’m just asking to discuss it more. Not sure what the right answer is. I just wonder what threshold we have to reach to feel honest and good and worthy to pass the TR interview…and if perhaps we hold ourselves sometimes to too high of a standard and create internal guilt unnecessarily.
Maybe…I’m living the word of wisdom…and I had a drink once or twice 3 months ago…is honest and OK? Maybe it depends on our heart and our intentions…and also…how much it would weigh on our minds sitting in the temple wondering about it instead of being present.
In the past, we have discussed this topic in Wayfarers TR question discussions (
hereHave you read through that thread?
What do you think feels right for you?
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