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Are we saying that a drop in activity & attendance at meetings was built into the decision to go to Two Hours? I am coming to the conclusion that I really don’t like change.
This seems to open the door for criticism that says, we’re not doing something right again.
Either “Ministering”, Fellowshipping, or spiritually developing myself & my family.
I want change & then when it happens, I’m critical or skeptical.
They can put that on my tombstone.
We’re playing to the lowest common denominator again, aren’t we? If there’s a three hour block there’s an expectation that people attend all three hours. People simply won’t give themselves permission to only attend two hours of church, heck they may even be hounded to attend that 3rd hour.
But if there’s two hour church then the expectation is only two hours. If people want to do more church, maybe have an informal study group that meets for a 3rd hour after the two hour block is up, they can do that, but it’s not the expectation of every member.
Minyan Man wrote:
Are we saying that a drop in activity & attendance at meetings was built into the decision to go to Two Hours?
I am saying that.
Minyan Man wrote:
I am coming to the conclusion that I really don’t like change.This seems to open the door for criticism that says, we’re not doing something right again.
Either “Ministering”, Fellowshipping, or spiritually developing myself & my family.
I think that’s the nature of growth and change, especially in a Church which claims divine revelation. The truth is, I think President Nelson and the whole of the Church leadership is trying to figure things out. We’ve got problems, and there are no straightforward solutions. Just as it leaves the door open for criticism of us, so it also leaves the door open from criticism of the Church. But I think we all need to stop thinking of what is “right” or “wrong” and instead focus on what is “better” or “worse”.
I would think attendance would INCREASE. Perhaps it is a net increase, which is painful or sad for some, better for others.
My equation:
All the active folks that as nibbler said do what is told (attend 3 hr block or 2 hr block)
+(Plus) People who were burned out in nursery or other callings that couldn’t bring themselves to staying 3 hours and out of guilt jsut would skip it all but now they can come for 2 hours and feel better about it.
-(Less) Those that are on the fringe that want the 3 hours and now are offended and won’t come to 2 hour church and get enough or make it worth their while…so now they just don’t come at all, or perhaps just don’t feel needed in a 2 hour format and just go inactive.
= Net Gain (loss)
i would think there are more that would attend 2 hour blocks than 3 hour blocks, and there is a net gain. Just guessing.
Change is never easy, and never seems to be exactly what we wanted it to be. You travel through the valley of despair, until sometimes we see it is going to be better after all, and we move from laggards in accepting change to going along with the innovators who embraced it from the start.
It is proven that different personalities accept change at different rates and under different conditions. It is never easy. Hopefully it is worth it.
30+ years ago when the church moved to the 3 hour block system, there was a standard explanation that “the church” was moving us toward a time when we would be doing our “churching” at home with a group of members for a Family Home Evening or Religious study group, and the sacrament. I heard it from institute teachers, HC, Bishops. I gave up believing it would happen decades ago. Suddenly, they may have been right.
Back then part of the reasoning was the challenge of members having buildings they could attend. The church wasn’t building the local buildings – individual wards and stakes did that. Sometimes, even in the United States, members had to drive a long way to get to the nearest meeting house. As a nation we were just coming out of the gas and energy recession.
To me this is just a long, long term planning fulfillment. Nothing more. They may have better leverage points, i.e. cramming 4 wards into a building, getting callings fulfilled that have been a bugger to fill, and the rest.
World wide, weekly church attendance is sliding. It’s not just millennials. In our stake, the retiree’s are often the ones to limit their church commitments.
I like the present plan. I would love a Sacrament Meeting only plan. But humans need community. Two hours gives us that. What remains to be seen is how this comes off. The original block program was set to be a Sunday only church for us. It was a great plan for Utah and Idaho. Not such a great plan for the mission field members. About 6 months into the “So let it be written. So let it be done” phase, the necessity of having mid week event was reinstated. We may find there are few more twists as it rolls out.
I just hope we stack the wards back to back and have all Sunday church ending by 1:00.
I’m surprised and elated by this change. Thank you RMN/FP/Q12! mom3 wrote:World wide, weekly church attendance is sliding. It’s not just millennials. In our stake, the retiree’s are often the ones to limit their church commitments.
From what you can see…do you think this change will help build attendance to sacrament meetings?
I don’t think it can hurt. I believe it could based on what I’ve stated previously. This change seems to be designed to help middle class (& upper class) families. Anyone who is poor, elderly or minority may feel left out socially. This is one hour less social contact for them & the church.
Some may argue that this is where “ministry” fills in the gap by taking them to church. I hope it does.
As stated before: I know there are members in our ward who travel 45-60 min each way on public transportation for (now) one less hour of contact.
There are some who won’t let us come to their homes because of safety issues, embarrassment or something else unstated.
My fears maybe all for nothing. I hope it is.
My area is more upper middle class, I think at first there maybe an increase. Just like with changing the missionary age, but over time I think it will drop. That said, I think it would have dropped anyway. People have churched for a very long time, it isn’t what it used to be. We don’t socialize on Sunday. We move from meeting to meeting, sit in repeat – regurgitated lessons, and have more stressful lives. It just gets easier to swap out Sunday’s. Even from devout people. So many of my friends have 5 or 6 married kids they visit that they are in and out of town on a rotating basis. I believe they do attend church with their kids when they are in town, but that limits them having a home base for callings, etc. I could be totally wrong.
I was thinking about it the other day actually. As a family, we don’t invite people over to our house because we don’t. 3/4 of us are introverts to various degrees, with a really small, really humble house. Bottom line – We don’t put resources (executive functioning and otherwise) into socializing with people at our house.
We don’t stay for linger longers because of 1 car, social anxiety – and my husband can’t eat most of what is presented and feels awkward about it.
I do most of my connecting or “socializing” through email, Facebook, and texting these days. My husband got more connected to the branch (also by email and texting) because of his calling as executive secretary – otherwise he would fade into the woodwork in his non-conforming ways.
So while I am glad for the 2 hour church on behalf of my toddler and 8.75 year old, there is also some mourning and thinking about how to set up an environment of “trading up” spiritually and socially.
mom3 wrote:
We don’t socialize on Sunday. We move from meeting to meeting, sit in repeat – regurgitated lessons, and have more stressful lives.
This is what I was going to say. Granted, you get the level of socializing that you put in but in my experience there’s not much socializing going on during our meetings, our meetings are much too formal for that. If you want to socialize you’ll have to do it in the hallways.
So does this produce more or less social time for people that need social time? Some that are already conditioned to 3 hour church may feel like they have more time to socialize after the block. Right now I see most people in a rush to get home because at 3 hours they’ve had more than their fill. Who knows, those types may hang around for a few minutes now.
I agree with nibbler and mom3. The length of church was especially difficult because of the monotony and poor use of time. They might have tried changes to manuals and councils 3rd hour and a few things but they weren’t enough. They needed more radical change for better content since church was so boring, or this reduction, which is the easier of the 2. AmyJ wrote:
As a family, we don’t invite people over to our house because we don’t. 3/4 of us are introverts to various degrees, with a really small, really humble house. Bottom line – We don’t put resources (executive functioning and otherwise) into socializing with people at our house.
I agree with Amy too. I would say there was a season in my life when we did socialize and had the ward BBQs in our back yard and I put effort into having people over for dinner so we could get to know them. But that isn’t my season now. I simply don’t put resources into socializing anymore.Some do. Some don’t. It should be left up to others as optional at church, not make everyone stay longer because a few have specific needs that may not have been met anyway under the prior format.
I socialized a lot at church. That’s what second hour was for. Half our ward is in the chapel, foyers, or hallways (SS is in the RS room). Our ward has a monthly “linger longer.” I’m usually not up for staying for that because, as I always said (somewhat tongue-in-cheek) “I’m done lingering, three hours is plenty of lingering for me.” I might be more inclined to stay now, depending on the food and my mood.
So, I agree, the Sunday meeting schedule is utilitarian and perfunctory. It’s not meant for socializing. The good news for me is that I actually don’t care much for socializing and only did the socializing I have done because what else was I supposed to do second hour? I just gave this a good amount of thought and checked my calendar – I have not been to a ward activity this year. I think the only one left is the Christmas party, which I may or may not go to. I didn’t go last year because it was a brunch on a Saturday morning (the older than dirt RSP planned it. I think she was Eliza Snow’s BFF back in the day
DarkJedi wrote:
I just gave this a good amount of thought and checked my calendar – I have not been to a ward activity this year.
I just checked my calendar. We haven’t had a ward activity this year.
We save it all for Halloween and Christmas.
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