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We stand for Fashion at all times and in all things and in all places. This week in RS there was an incident that illustrated one of the things that drives me crazy about our culture. I sat in a lesson that was supposed to be about preparing to go to the temple and listened to it disintegrate into total ridiculousness. The class started at wearing nice appropriate clothes to the temple. We then moved to specifics about the types of foot wear and clothes that would allow us to have the right spirit. Then it really took off with a discussion of how we are not keeping the Sabbath holy if we do not stay in our church clothes all day. It then continued into how we can’t learn as much from the scriptures or prayer if we are not attired in the right way even in our own homes. All of this backed up by some un-cited quotes by general authorities. After that the discussion descended into how the higher dress standards at BYU Idaho allow the students to learn better there and so we really need to adhere to those standards if we want to be able to learn or study anything in the correct way (though 3/4 of the people in the room would have been kicked off campus for modesty issues).
:crazy: I live in a wealthy place and appearance is so very important to many of the people.I believe that women will be punished for their own fashion faux pas and not for Eve’s totally last year’s fig leaves.
:lolno: These types of things make me want to scream. The purpose of them I feel is to one up each other on our Godliness. The heartbreak in this comes, as it did in this instance is when a new or less step counting member then asks is this right and expresses how they never knew about how important this was and that they will correct their lives right away. I tried to respond that not everyone feels the same, but was shut down very quickly by people suggesting that if you don’t do this you are not obedient, good, and or raising your children right (the ultimate insult for a woman in the church). Apparently there can be no personal revelation or the ability to learn anything in sandals, pajamas, or if your bag doesn’t match your designer shoes.
DH suggested I email the sister that was so adamant and just ask for the reference to the general conference talk where this was cited. I personally deal with this by being snarky though I have learned to keep it to myself.
If you have any advice on how to deal with this situation and the others that happen like it I would love to hear.
Yikes. You live anywhere near Antionum? 
Mrs. SuperChicken wrote:I believe that women will be punished for their own fashion foe paws and not for Eve’s totally last year’s fig leaves.
:lolno: Ha.
My strategy probably isn’t the best. Try to laugh it off and forget as soon as I possibly can.
Our lesson was on performing our priesthood duties wherein this gem was shared:
N. Eldon Tanner wrote:Several years ago my oldest grandson who had been a deacon for a year came to me and said, “Grandpa, I have been a hundred percenter ever since I was ordained a deacon a year ago.” I said, “What do you mean by a hundred percenter?” Of course I knew, but he responded, “I haven’t missed a sacrament meeting, Sunday School, or priesthood meeting since I was ordained a deacon.”
I congratulated him and said, “John, if you will continue to be a hundred percenter until you are old enough to go on a mission, I will finance your mission.” He smiled and said, “I’ll do it.”
I thought I was perfectly safe, but he set about to be a hundred percenter. I remember on two occasions how he disciplined himself in order to accomplish his undertaking. One time his uncle invited him to go for a trip with him and his boys where they would be gone over Sunday. John said, “Is there any place I can attend my meetings on Sunday?” and as he was told there was not, he said, “No, I can’t go. I am going to be a hundred percenter,” and therefore sacrificed a lovely trip to the ocean and an island on which they were going to celebrate.
Another time near a weekend he broke his leg. The first thing he asked his doctor was, “Will I be able to attend Church on Sunday? I have to be a hundred percenter.” He came, of course, on crutches.
When he became 19 years of age, he said, “Grandpa, I have been a hundred percenter ever since we made that deal.” I was very happy to finance him on his mission. This achievement has been a great influence in his life. It is not so difficult for him to discipline himself and do those things which are right for him to do and which will bring him success.
Scrupulosity 101.
nibbler wrote:Our lesson was on performing our priesthood duties wherein this gem was shared:
N. Eldon Tanner wrote:Several years ago my oldest grandson who had been a deacon for a year came to me and said, “Grandpa, I have been a hundred percenter ever since I was ordained a deacon a year ago.” I said, “What do you mean by a hundred percenter?” Of course I knew, but he responded, “I haven’t missed a sacrament meeting, Sunday School, or priesthood meeting since I was ordained a deacon.”
I congratulated him and said, “John, if you will continue to be a hundred percenter until you are old enough to go on a mission, I will finance your mission.” He smiled and said, “I’ll do it.”
I thought I was perfectly safe, but he set about to be a hundred percenter. I remember on two occasions how he disciplined himself in order to accomplish his undertaking. One time his uncle invited him to go for a trip with him and his boys where they would be gone over Sunday. John said, “Is there any place I can attend my meetings on Sunday?” and as he was told there was not, he said, “No, I can’t go. I am going to be a hundred percenter,” and therefore sacrificed a lovely trip to the ocean and an island on which they were going to celebrate.
Another time near a weekend he broke his leg. The first thing he asked his doctor was, “Will I be able to attend Church on Sunday? I have to be a hundred percenter.” He came, of course, on crutches.
When he became 19 years of age, he said, “Grandpa, I have been a hundred percenter ever since we made that deal.” I was very happy to finance him on his mission. This achievement has been a great influence in his life. It is not so difficult for him to discipline himself and do those things which are right for him to do and which will bring him success.
Scrupulosity 101.
Or if you are more of an accountant, you could look at this and say my mission costs $9600 ($400 a month x 24 months) and if I am 13 and leave on my mission when I am 18, that is 780 hours (5 years from 13 to 18 x 52 weeks a year * 3 hours a week [ignoring “bonus” weeks like Gen Conf and stake conf]). That comes to about 12.30/hour. That isn’t all that bad of a wage.😆 Quote:I personally deal with this by being snarky though I have learned to keep it to myself.
I hear you sister, Sunday School did it for me yesterday. The lesson was supposed to be on the callings of John the Baptist and Jesus Christ with Christ’s temptations as a prelude to his mission, but it quickly rolled into a who is better than who, who repents more than others so that they are never disconnected from God, the final comment that cemented the day was a ward member calling out people who would be watching the Super Bowl in the evening and putting on a team jersey.
I bit my tongue till it was bleeding. Today I have thought of hundreds of things I wish I’d said. Instead I just grabbed out my quote book and read uplifting gospel quotes from Uchtdorf, Orson F. Whitney, and Joseph Smith. If I hadn’t I would have blown up. I was embarrassed by my ward.
Flawed people running an organization, indeed. Life is interesting, ain’t it?
This kind of cultural stuff annoys me. There are warnings in the scriptures about the wearing of costly apparel, and implications (by none other than JC) that being concerned too much about what we wear is missing the mark of what’s important. There are people who are in tatters and who are homeless and filthy who are nearer to God than many, because they absolutely need Him. I don’t have any earth-shattering advice. If I’m in a fairly good mood and sitting next to someone who I know will appreciate it I will mark very quiet snarky remarks to my neighbor. Generally that doesn’t happen, and I just enjoy my own snarkiness. What usually happens is I pull out my phone or tablet and do my own thing. Sometimes that’s reading something church related, sometimes it’s not. I like to sit near enough to the door that I can leave with relative little interference. If I am paying attention and something really outlandish comes out I will speak up – I do have some street cred, though. Mrs. SuperChicken wrote:These types of things make me want to scream. The purpose of them I feel is to one up each other on our Godliness. The heartbreak in this comes, as it did in this instance is when a new or less step counting member then asks is this right and expresses how they never knew about how important this was and that they will correct their lives right away. I tried to respond that not everyone feels the same, but was shut down very quickly by people suggesting that if you don’t do this you are not obedient, good, and or raising your children right (the ultimate insult for a woman in the church). Apparently there can be no personal revelation or the ability to learn anything in sandals, pajamas, or if your bag doesn’t match your designer shoes.
It is heartbreaking because that new member, and probably all the “old” ones, too, will eventually regret turning so many personal decisions over to the culture, the committee, the institution, the woman who gave the lesson – whoever it was that seemed to be shouting down their own inner voice.
I used to teach the 4 year olds in primary. Since I have been released I am regularly asked to sub (or rather my wife is asked to sub and she volunteers me in her place 
The music leader has a jar of beans. Whenever the primary does as she says she adds to the jar. When the primary is bad or fidgety or not in unison she may remove beans. I remember one Sunday when she made a big deal of dramatically dumping out the entire jar in punishment. If the jar reaches the top then the primary gets treats.
This really bothers DW as she sees it as manipulative and shaming of the individual children singled out.
I actually get a bit of a perverse thrill when she threatens to remove beans because the beans hold no power over me. I know that for some others the beans may matter a great deal – but for me, I am free.
It sometimes helps for me to imagine other instances of box checking and score keeping as jars of beans. This sometimes helps me to remember that others attemps to add beans to my jar or remove them based on their subjective view of my actions or how I dress matters very little.
I am accepted. I am loved. In the final analysis their opinions don’t add up …..(you guessed it)….. to a hill of beans!
*face palm* – even though I do like the analogy a lot. It is so great to hear lots of you have things like this in your ward too. I also feel less guilty about my irreverent thoughts on the subject. There is not much I can do to change some of the dumber things that are said, I have too much of a reputation for being a realist. Hearing your ways of poking fun at your situations has made me less frustrated about it. I just wish others could see how totally dumb and often damaging some of this stuff is. But I would rather laugh at it than cry about it. Quote:Or if you are more of an accountant, you could look at this and say my mission costs $9600 ($400 a month x 24 months) and if I am 13 and leave on my mission when I am 18, that is 780 hours (5 years from 13 to 18 x 52 weeks a year * 3 hours a week [ignoring “bonus” weeks like Gen Conf and stake conf]). That comes to about 12.30/hour. That isn’t all that bad of a wage.
😆 Perfectly reasonable
😆 Quote:If I’m in a fairly good mood and sitting next to someone who I know will appreciate it I will mark very quiet snarky remarks to my neighbor. Generally that doesn’t happen, and I just enjoy my own snarkiness.
Quote:I may need to find a snark buddy to sit with. Though DH sometimes thinks it is funny when I text comments to him during class. People have noticed the few times I have gotten up to leave.
Quote:It sometimes helps for me to imagine other instances of box checking and score keeping as jars of beans. This sometimes helps me to remember that others attemps to add beans to my jar or remove them based on their subjective view of my actions or how I dress matters very little.
I am accepted. I am loved. In the final analysis their opinions don’t add up …..(you guessed it)….. to a hill of beans!
I also do not like the bean jar. This has been used even with the adults to get us to do things, luckly I can just go get myself a treat if I want one. I had not linked with the incessant box checking, but I can see how it is the same thing.
This is a toughie…but I suppose it is only tough if you think it is. Sometimes when people are set apart and given authority in a specific role it seems only natural that they would emphasize specific actions that they feel has benefited their own personal spiritual walk.
I remember one day on ‘Bishops’s Sunday in the third hour where EQ and RS met together that our Bishop gave a quick improptu talk about how he had genuinely felt the spirit more as he followed the Word of Wisdom. In his personal following of the WoW he found that he was spiritually convicted over taking Excedrin for headaches/migraines as Excedrin contains caffeine. He testified, and I do not doubt him, that he felt the spirit more as he refrained from caffeine.
Does this mean I cannot have caffeine? Obviously not…but for this man who is genuinely a good man it was an issue for him.
If only these types of talks and messages could be prefaced with the words “For me, etc etc” or “Your mileage may vary” etc etc.
Jorsen wrote:
If only these types of talks and messages could be prefaced with the words “For me, etc etc” or “Your mileage may vary” etc etc.You are right, I need to remember that this was very important to the people pushing it. I am glad they found something that works for them. I am not a lemming and have other things I have found that work for me. If I couldn’t study the scriptures or pray in my pajamas it would never happen. Again we are back to everyone should be allowed to apply the gospel to their lives and personalities in different ways and we can both be right.
Jorsen wrote:This is a toughie…but I suppose it is only tough if you think it is.
Sometimes when people are set apart and given authority in a specific role it seems only natural that they would emphasize specific actions that they feel has benefited their own personal spiritual walk.
I remember one day on ‘Bishops’s Sunday in the third hour where EQ and RS met together that our Bishop gave a quick improptu talk about how he had genuinely felt the spirit more as he followed the Word of Wisdom. In his personal following of the WoW he found that he was spiritually convicted over taking Excedrin for headaches/migraines as Excedrin contains caffeine. He testified, and I do not doubt him, that he felt the spirit more as he refrained from caffeine.
Does this mean I cannot have caffeine? Obviously not…but for this man who is genuinely a good man it was an issue for him.
If only these types of talks and messages could be prefaced with the words “For me, etc etc” or “Your mileage may vary” etc etc.
How about this from Pres. Uchtdorf?
Quote:Sometimes, well-meaning amplifications of divine principles—many coming from uninspired sources—complicate matters further, diluting the purity of divine truth with man-made addenda. One person’s good idea—something that may work for him or her—takes root and becomes an expectation. And gradually, eternal principles can get lost within the labyrinth of “good ideas.”
Our HPG lesson on Sunday focused on distinguishing between principles, organizations, program, policies and procedures. It was an excellent discussion. The problem occurs when people can’t distinguish between those things – and others, like doctrine, practice, culture, personal inspiration, etc.
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