Very unique & strange reason to be here

[Anonymous]

I never thought I would join a forum like this. I thought nothing could rattle me in the 30 + years as a member. I am the only member of my family, my dh is a supportive nm, and all 3 of my grown kids were raised in the Church. I am military, and am medically releasing in a few weeks, not my choice, but not many of us get out without being messed up somehow.

Short story: My 24yo daughter was always strongest in the Church. She dated a lot of members and i have to say, I was very disappointed in their behaviour. Lies, controlling, deceit, playing games etc… and she went into a depression. the summer before last she met a YM and announced he was her intended. From the start, the relationship mirrored one she had previous where the guy was controlling and “difficult”. He seemed a very nice YM, an RM (though that wasn’t important to us). It was my daughter’s behaviour that changed. She became very distant to us, even angry towards us, she left a good job with great prospects to go live near him, she did find another job, and we supported her financially while she got on her feet.

Eventually, he did get her a ring and she told us. But it felt wrong. I can’t even put it in words. It was weird. We did meet his family (they live 5 hours away from us) and right away, we knew that his mom was the control freak battle-axe MIL. I’ll put this short… EVERYTHING about the wedding had already been decided, we had no say in it. Except, of course, they wanted us to foot half the bill for this elaborate, over the top reception. We declined and offered to host our own reception back home so my daughter’s family, including her grandparents who practically raised her, could come. She didn’t care if they came or not or if her family came to any reception. Very weird.

There was so much more… the MIL went with her to pick out her wedding dress and sent me a pic of her smiling in the background

… that is something I will never get over. 10 days before the wedding, my daughter had her FIL call us (he has beginning of dementia) to shame us into paying for their reception. We estimated they spent about $30,000 for the sit-down meal of 200 guests (we knew no one there) in a rented church hall (their culture). My husband had it… he refused to go. Since we couldn’t go to the sealing anyways, we were not going to take part in this insane reception or be controlled by that woman whom I call Mama B.

You also have to understand that I am on therapy and medication from the military for having a breakdown from harassment and workplace bullying. It is very different in the military than for civilians, a whole different world of hurt.

Today, 6 months later: It’s very hard for me to go to Church. People in my ward that know her are as confused by her behaviour. She also pretty well blocked out her best friend growing up. She did have one conversation with her and told her that “I finally found the family I always wanted”. We are not a perfect family. But I’ve never beat or abused my children in any way, we did the best we could. But we did struggle and were not rich. Note: this family she married into is very well off.

What’s more, I do not want to hear anything about the temple. I don’t want to attend, or support it in any way. This family regularly attends the temple and are temple workers. She and her dh live in a basement apartment of the house that Mama B has. As far as I’m concerned, they have created a cult. My daughter drank the koolaid. I have had very little contact with her, I do text her but her responses are very stiff and distant. Yesterday was my birthday and I heard nothing from her.

Since last summer, my testimony of this Church has completely crumbled. The same-sex marriage obsession, the Church PR machine control, all of it contributes to this deterioration. I don’t and won’t proselyte for this Church anymore. I come from a very rural area of Canada and I can’t even explain to my family and friends there what happened… most of them are born agains and I don’t know how to explain this without making the Church sound like a cult in general.

If my sons married a girl, I would make sure her family was involved. But I know this woman deliberately cut us out. I cannot imagine doing this to anyone. I raised a great girl for them, and they took her away from me. I hope that woman burns in hell for her behaviour, but of course, in the eyes of the Church, she did everything right.

So you see I have anger issues Don’t tell me to not blame the Church, this is my daughter. I loved and love her. But I feel like she died, and i fight everyday that we aren’t good enough for her. Her brothers don’t want anything to do with her anymore, they say she’s not the same. That’s just sad. I definitely do not want them to marry a member or in the temple. I never thought I’d say that. One is inactive, the other has Aspergers and is completely ignored at Church so I doubt that’s a problem.

In a few weeks I’ll be out of the military, a medical release is VERY hard to go through. But losing my faith in something I cared so much about is worse. My faith in HF and Christ has never changed and is as strong as ever. This sounds strange, but I feel very much like my gay friend who was a member… loads of faith, just no use for the institution anymore.

Anyways, thanks for listening, I’m sure this is a very odd story to many of you. I’m hoping someone will say something to keep me active and involved at Church. None of it makes sense, I should be happy my daughter married in the temple, but I wish she had married a nm man of character instead.

[Anonymous]

Welcome to the forum. I hope you find the peace you seek. The faith crisis part of your story and the crumbling testimony are something others here can relate to very well – circumstances may differ but the essence of the crisis is the same. I am sorry you feel the loss of your daughter. I have a similar age daughter (not active, dating a non-member) and cannot imagine how awful it would be to be cut out of her life as you describe you have been.

A couple thoughts, only my opinions. The forum and advice are free, you get what you pay for.

1. My faith/hope in Christ is the main reason I attend church. It’s not a bad reason to stay.

2. I know you said not to tell you not to blame the church, but I fail to see what the institution of the church had to do with this. I see some behavior of your MIL (a member, but not the church), your daughter (a member, but not the church), and others (members, but not the church). I always advocate for separating the church and the gospel, and like wise there is a difference in the church and the membership. Individuals are not the church. I spent years being mad at God during my faith crisis/transition until I realized God had nothing to do with it. I then spent a much shorter time being mad at the church until I realized it was not the church that did anything either (lying/deceit was part of the issue for me). In the end, the spark of the transition phase, I recognized it was really people who had done the teaching and perceived deception that put me where I was – but not all the people. I have forgiven them, but that doesn’t mean I still don’t have bouts of anger sometimes. The church does teach the gospel of Jesus Christ along with a bunch of other stuff – for me it works to focus on what I do believe (the gospel of Jesus Christ) and ignore the rest (which does include the temple, family history, and loads of other stuff.)

[Anonymous]

Ebowalker, So sorry to hear what you are going through. It sounds like you are in a situation that a 100% emotionally strong person would have a hard time handling. I can imagine it would just break a parents heart to have a child do this

I am no shrink, but I need to make sure you take care of yourself. I hope you have access to counseling – take advantage of it.

We welcome you here and we hope we can be of some help.

I will try and log in later tonight, but I have to head off for a while.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

But losing my faith in something I cared so much about is worse. My faith in HF and Christ has never changed and is as strong as ever. This sounds strange, but I feel very much like my gay friend who was a member… loads of faith, just no use for the institution anymore.

There is a similar feeling shared by many people in different circumstances that seem to come to this conclusion based on life experience.

I have wondered if God wants us to get to a place where we are not co-dependent on the institution, and pushes us towards finding that maturity…and that is the progress he wants of us. I have also wondered if it is just life and my prior expectations that EVERYTHING fit into the perspective of the gospel was insufficient, only to find that life has some stuff that simply doesn’t fit. I never really went through a “crisis of faith”…but certainly went through a transition from doubting knowledge I had previously taken for granted, and studied many new things so that I might learn more clearly.

I like DJ’s advice. Begin to separate church from gospel. There are times in life we need to push through our challenges with a new perspective, and let go of our expectations that cause us frustrations. The church is still useful, in the measure of it’s creation. But there is much to life and the world outside church. I have found more peace in that, and the more I see it that way, the more it becomes clearer to me.

Perhaps your NM husband has perspectives and words of wisdom that help you at this time.

Thanks for sharing your story here. I look forward to learning more from your posts.

[Anonymous]

I see how the church influence has something to do with this. I see it in my own daughter. We raised her in the church and she subscribes to its traditional values. At the same time I am no longer orthodox, and she has an irritated sense of disapproval around me now. Almost like she’s better than I am in her TBM-ness.

At the same time, I raised her in this church, so I can’t expect her to turn her back on the whole orthodox Mormon thing. Nor do I want her to change from it as it really works for her.

I also emphathize with losing family members. I lost my N/M family over the temple. But then, recently, after several decades of relative indifference toward me, my sister had a wakeup call that I had grown distant. Not really interested in the family. She initiated a meeting of all our kids in my home town and I forgot to respond with a date. Alarm bells, last quartile of our lives and our own kids barely even know each others’ names. Then my Dad had an accident and was incapacitated.

All of a sudden, they are calling me, reaching out to me, telling me they love me.

I tell you this because you don’t know who life will change your In laws and your daughter. She is in a honeymoon period right now, and just like you never thought you would be here, things will happen to all those people that may well change them. Hope for it.

in the meantime, keep your inner peace. Make living your life with joy and peace your number one priority — and find your own way. Post issues one by one here and let people respond to them until you rebuild a new philosophy.

I encourage you to stay with the church, but set your own terms, and be militant about making either a source of joy, or something that you contain….my two cents..

[Anonymous]

Ebowalker, welcome to the group. Alot of what you said sounds so familiar with events in my life.

Know that you’re not alone. I am looking forward to hearing more from you.

[Anonymous]

Welcome!

Our lives are so different that I can’t offer personal advice from personal experience about much of what you are facing. I only can welcome you to our Island of Misfit Toys and give sincere hope and belief that we all can help each other somehow.

You have had good advice so far. I simply want to reiterate that good counseling can be invaluable – and that there is NO shame or deficiency in seeking professional help. If you need that sort of help, please get it. We try to be a support group, but we aren’t professionals in that area.

[Anonymous]

Welcome Ebowalker,

I am so sorry for what you are feeling right now. I would encourage you to keep the lines of communication open. As SD said, things can change and there can be a desire to rebuild bridges that were burnt long ago. I agree that there should be boundaries – even with family. I just hate to see battle lines drawn between family members.

The in-laws can be awful but you do not really need to see them often now that the wedding is out of the way. Keep those interactions where you must deal with them brief and filled will pleasantries.

As far as the church, I fully agree that there are certain cultural elements in the church that exacerbate some of the worst traits of individuals (I speculate that this happens particularly when people take church doctrine as a shield to convince themselves that they are right in their non-acceptance of others). However, it is not necessarily the church’s fault when people act like jerks. I imagine that there are some amazing, kind, and supportive in-laws to be found within the church. Unfortunately, your daughter did not marry into one of those families and you are left to deal with it the best that you can.

Try not to talk bad about the in-laws in public or with your daughter as this might force her to choose sides and deepen the rift. Hopefully, when grandchildren arrive there will be much to share and talk about that does not involve the in-laws and their ways.

Just the opinion of one fellow traveler.

[Anonymous]

Hi Ebowalker!

I’m new here also but I just wanted to welcome you and chime in a little. I feel so bad for what you are going through. It would totally break my heart, also.

I also understand your anger at the church even though they didn’t directly advocate for this. In fact, your daughter’s in-laws sound like they are not very kind or caring people which goes against God’s teachings. The problem with the temple recommend system is that unkind and frankly, mean people can get a temple recommend if they are following the check list while others who are kind, giving and loving but may smoke a cigarette are kept out. And in our culture, temple recommend holders=good Mormons and non-temple-recommend member=not so good Mormons. It kind of brings out that “We’re better than you” aspect in people. This can be incredibly hurtful to those who are trying to live a good life the best they can but are viewed as “less worthy” because they don’t have a certain card in their wallet

I would agree with others that this could be temporary and your daughter may very well see that you have loved her and provided for her and that if she wants to truly do what Heavenly Father wants of her than she will be loving and maintain a relationship with you. Growing up and getting older does amazing things for one’s belief system. Life tends to knock us down off our pedestal every once in awhile so we can learn how to live the way we should. I know that this probably doesn’t help it hurt any less right now, though.

As far as your testimony and activity in the church, what you are going through kind of reminds me of why I am having such a hard time now. I have known for quite a while the rough history of the church and I definitely got upset each time I found out something new. I have always been able to get over it, though, by relying on my spiritual experiences. However, I had a very bad experience in a calling that I was just released from a year ago. It caused me to have a very dark depression that I didn’t even know existed. And that is what really shook my testimony. When you are hurt by some aspect of the church then the other stuff starts to bother you even more. I started to think why am I destroying myself over something that has this many holes and flaws? You get resentful so all you can see are the negative aspects and it starts to build and build until you only see the bad and refuse to see the good. This is where I have been at lately.

What I am trying to work on and hopefully what you can try to, is to look for the good in the gospel. Instead of only naming the bad, name something positive for every negative you come up with. For every mean, cruel person, is someone who really cares and is just trying to do what’s right. There are so many comforting parts of the gospel that I don’t want to give up.

Heber13 gave me some good advice when I came on this site. He reminded me that if the church was all unicorns, rainbows and pansies (or something like that 🙂 ) then we couldn’t learn and grow like we should. He said that frustration and angst are apart of it. I loved that because I really believed that if you were trying to do what’s right then you shouldn’t have any problems as far as the church was concerned. But I guess dealing with the hardship of it all really can shape and mold you.

Although, I haven’t experienced feeling like my child has been taken away from me because of church, I have definitely felt darkness even when I was trying to do what’s right. So what I am learning is that I need to depend on Heavenly Father to guide me and setting limits on what I feel I can do in church. I just asked to be released from my current calling because my resentment was causing me to hate Sundays. What I have found I need to work on is getting rid of the resentment so I can focus on the good news of the gospel. I am still trying to find out what I have to do to get rid of that completely. Maybe if you can find a way to work on your understandable anger and hurt, then maybe you will remember some of the good ways that being a member has shaped who you are. Good luck and I am really sorry for the pain you are going through.

[Anonymous]

I found Kate5’s comments to be very insightful.

kate5 wrote:

I also understand your anger at the church even though they didn’t directly advocate for this. In fact, your daughter’s in-laws sound like they are not very kind or caring people which goes against God’s teachings. The problem with the temple recommend system is that unkind and frankly, mean people can get a temple recommend if they are following the check list while others who are kind, giving and loving but may smoke a cigarette are kept out. And in our culture, temple recommend holders=good Mormons and non-temple-recommend member=not so good Mormons. It kind of brings out that “We’re better than you” aspect in people. This can be incredibly hurtful to those who are trying to live a good life the best they can but are viewed as “less worthy” because they don’t have a certain card in their wallet

Yup. Truly all of us are sinners even though not all of us act like it. 😈

kate5 wrote:

As far as your testimony and activity in the church, what you are going through kind of reminds me of why I am having such a hard time now. I have known for quite a while the rough history of the church and I definitely got upset each time I found out something new. I have always been able to get over it, though, by relying on my spiritual experiences. However, I had a very bad experience in a calling that I was just released from a year ago. It caused me to have a very dark depression that I didn’t even know existed. And that is what really shook my testimony. When you are hurt by some aspect of the church then the other stuff starts to bother you even more. I started to think why am I destroying myself over something that has this many holes and flaws? You get resentful so all you can see are the negative aspects and it starts to build and build until you only see the bad and refuse to see the good. This is where I have been at lately.

This was my experience too. I knew of most of the controversies at least on a superficial level but it didn’t shake my core because the church was working for me. It was providing a support structure of good people and what I believed was the ability to claim the blessings of heaven on behalf of my family. I believed completely that my tithing payment and priesthood service would open the windows of heaven. When tragedy struck my family, the whole belief structure collapsed on itself. I know that the ward tried to be supportive but they just didn’t know what to do with me.

I now participate in a new ward in a new state. The church now is a much smaller part of my life and social connections but it is still a part. That part ties me back to the heritage of my parents and grandparents. I will not toss out that particular baby with the bathwater.

[Anonymous]

Ebowalker:

Welcome to the Forum.

It must be horrifically tough to be having problems with your daughter while in the midst of leaving the military for medical reasons. That would be hard on ones personal identity. You are losing part of your identity as a mother at the same time as you as losing your identity as a soldier. That is too many changes all at once.

Quote:

Short story: My 24yo daughter was always strongest in the Church. She dated a lot of members and i have to say, I was very disappointed in their behaviour. Lies, controlling, deceit, playing games etc… and she went into a depression. the summer before last she met a YM and announced he was her intended. From the start, the relationship mirrored one she had previous where the guy was controlling and “difficult”. He seemed a very nice YM, an RM (though that wasn’t important to us). It was my daughter’s behaviour that changed. She became very distant to us, even angry towards us, she left a good job with great prospects to go live near him, she did find another job, and we supported her financially while she got on her feet.

The descriptions you used with your daughter reminded me of my sister. She says she hates controlling men, but she has been married to 3 and lived with another 2 of the most controlling men you could imagine. I tease her that “only the names change”. She has consistently sought out the same type of person.

Whether you like it of not, your daughter likes controlling people in her life. She might state that she hates them, but she has a history of seeking out a specific type of YM. On some level, it works for her. In her husband and his family, she hit the mother lode. She found a very controlling man and a controlling MIL.

Quote:

You also have to understand that I am on therapy and medication from the military for having a breakdown from harassment and workplace bullying. It is very different in the military than for civilians, a whole different world of hurt.

Because of your history, her choosing to be controlled has to be horrific to you.

Quote:

Today, 6 months later: It’s very hard for me to go to Church. People in my ward that know her are as confused by her behaviour. She also pretty well blocked out her best friend growing up. She did have one conversation with her and told her that “I finally found the family I always wanted”. We are not a perfect family. But I’ve never beat or abused my children in any way, we did the best we could. But we did struggle and were not rich. Note: this family she married into is very well off.

Your daughter has found something she wants. She is giving up everything else in order to pursue it.

Quote:

What’s more, I do not want to hear anything about the temple. I don’t want to attend, or support it in any way. This family regularly attends the temple and are temple workers. She and her dh live in a basement apartment of the house that Mama B has. As far as I’m concerned, they have created a cult. My daughter drank the koolaid. I have had very little contact with her, I do text her but her responses are very stiff and distant. Yesterday was my birthday and I heard nothing from her.

Since last summer, my testimony of this Church has completely crumbled. The same-sex marriage obsession, the Church PR machine control, all of it contributes to this deterioration. I don’t and won’t proselyte for this Church anymore. I come from a very rural area of Canada and I can’t even explain to my family and friends there what happened… most of them are born agains and I don’t know how to explain this without making the Church sound like a cult in general.

If my sons married a girl, I would make sure her family was involved. But I know this woman deliberately cut us out. I cannot imagine doing this to anyone. I raised a great girl for them, and they took her away from me. I hope that woman burns in hell for her behaviour, but of course, in the eyes of the Church, she did everything right.

Your daughter ran to them. She has made specific choices. Her husband and MIL only know as much about you and your family as your daughter chooses to share. Your daughter may have just not shared much .. But has chosen to try on a new life for a bit.

I

Quote:

n a few weeks I’ll be out of the military, a medical release is VERY hard to go through. But losing my faith in something I cared so much about is worse. My faith in HF and Christ has never changed and is as strong as ever. This sounds strange, but I feel very much like my gay friend who was a member… loads of faith, just no use for the institution anymore.

Maybe get through these next few weeks, complete your separation from the military, and take time to just breathe. Focus on the lose of your career. Give yourself an opportunity to grieve that loss.

About your daughter, just because she is emotionally gone right now doesn’t mean she is permanently gone. Being married doesn’t mean being grown up. Allow her time to figure out her life. It might take a few years, but there is a pretty good chance that she will come looking for her momma. Let her try this new life on for a bit. Just like fabulous looking new shoes, when you try to walk in them for too long, they start to hurt.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

My faith in HF and Christ has never changed and is as strong as ever. This sounds strange, but I feel very much like my gay friend who was a member… loads of faith, just no use for the institution anymore.

Hi, ebowalker – I’m glad you’re here and hope participating helps. It’s easy to see why you’re so upset.

I identify with this sentiment. But we don’t get to start completely from scratch, so we withdraw and “switch off.” You might spend some time mentally checked out while you sort through things, read and explore. It’s very satisfying to define your faith for yourself.

I really hope things improve with your daughter.

[Author]

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