Visions?

[Anonymous]

Brian, thanks for the link to one of my favorite talks on Liahona saints. Your comments are great.

Perhaps visions are like this also. Since some have certain gifts to such visions, others don’t, there seems to not be just one approach that works for all, seeing as we have different gifts.

It seems that for some, the Iron Rod works for a time until their life has enormous obstacles. They don’t teach you that in the handbook on holding to the Iron Rod. They hope you don’t see those obstacles. But for some…it seems there is a point where letting go of the Iron Rod is an important option, in order to use the gifts God has given to some, the Liahona. It is different than clinging to the Iron Rod. But God has provided a way for some to use it when they need to.

And in doing so, the Liahona sometimes is pointing, but doesn’t guarantee a straight path, but perhaps a little wandering into new areas, which seems to be OK if the person can stay focused on the vision that eventually takes them to their destination. Perhaps the wandering even has some important purpose in learning something. The danger is if the wandering leads to negative things like murmuring or sin, it can stop working leaving the wanderer alone in the mists, where others might say, “See, it is just safer to hold to the Rod.”

To the Iron Rodders, all who wander are lost, because they aren’t holding to the Rod which works for them. They like their path. It is the “one and only true” path. But those wandering realize the Iron Rodders don’t understand them and their journey, because Liahonas are receiving visions or inspiration personally to do what they need to do, which is less certain but still requires faith and strength to brave that road less traveled…and yet, it makes all the difference.

Question: Does the group think that Iron Rods are setup by those who go before hand, whereas Liahonas are provided for new circumstances or uniquely personal circumstances? Perhaps Joseph Smith was a Liahona Saint. Perhaps Brigham Young also. But both had their visions and used that to direct a group of workers to construct the Iron Rods for those who come after, who may not have their gifts. The Iron Rod wasn’t there for Joseph or others before him. But once it is constructed…it is useful for many who come after.

Does that make sense? If so, if someone has their own gifts of visions, do they have the tools to go into new directions, areas in their life where the Iron Rod won’t take them? And God is teaching us that is OK also, or even sometimes necessary?

[Anonymous]

I like the Liahona and Iron Rod talk as well. I remember that it gave me some comfort on one of those days when I thought I couldn’t make it through mormonism for one more day.

Brian Johnston wrote:

I don’t take the same meaning from them anymore though. I see them as interesting, mostly. I don’t see them as being attached to any particular set of dogmas or faith traditions. They aren’t necessarily, to me, an indication of “truth.” Everyone seems to have them. I feel they are a part of our vast and complex mind, much of which is outside our conscious focus and perhaps even outside the meat of our brain, and also perhaps acts as a gateway to perception and thoughts that stretch our limits (in a good and creative way).

I agree that it does not seem to be based on dogmas or faith traditions. I don’t think God works just to one religion. I guess I am hoping there is a God and this suggests to me that there is something out there. Of course it could just be the power of the mind and all that however many percent of it we don’t use. Or just the power of positive thinking or future me came back in a time machine and told me stuff while I slept or a million other things. I’ve thought before that the “spirit” could just be our intuition (use of brain outside of our conscious use of it) that is guiding us to make good decisions etc. For example yes, it’s good to think the church is true since that puts you in the cool crowd at church and you fit in with everyone. So then you get a real spiritual experience as your brain triggers your emotions while you sit there like a dope not knowing that any of this is going on. On the other hand though, sometimes these things seem outside of what your brain could have any possible way of knowing, but I guess I don’t know the depths of the power of the human mind…

I just don’t have much confidence in setting a baseline of my faith (Does God exist?) on some pray about something and feel good about it and then you can say you know there is a God because you have faith. I’ll have to keep thinking about it (yes and praying to get a warm fuzzy). Right now I’m taking the over on the over/under for the question “Is there a God?”. I would be surprised however if God looks like Gandalf in any way (an old white dude with a beard).

Having a faith crisis sucks.

Thanks everyone for all your comments and for providing a community for us who are staying lds (for now)…

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